Jokeroo Community - View Single Post - Let's argue about Religion...I don't get to do that enough!!

OldMt.Grizzly · 05-14-2004, 05:09 AM

This thread started a little too vague for me to actually see what there is to debate. If you want proof of one religion over another, that is one thing but religion in general is an incredibly broad subject.

Just for the sake of clarification since there seems to be some confusion. A gentile is basically anyone who is not a Jew. A protestant was originally a Gentile who protested against the various violations of the scripture propagated by Catholicism as pointed out by Luther.

Science has not proved that we came from the earth, in fact the more digging scientists do, the more concerned they become because they continue to find completely developed species but absolutely no trace of any of the "missing links" in the fossil record. Also, DNA studies have revealed that all mankind can be traced back to one man and one woman. (As in Adam and Eve)

I will tell you what I believe and then we will just see where we go from there. If this becomes another vicious thread I will drop it. If there are specific questions or if people want to discuss beliefs openly without attacking (this goes both ways) I will be happy to continue.

1. We were all created by God. YHWH. If I park my truck in front of your house and say look what evolved you would say I was crazy, that truck was made by Dodge. Creation equals creator, not accident. If I throw a hand grenade into my house it will not suddenly become ordered and rational, the "big bang" theory also would not have created order. Even Newton principles show that matter tends to move towards less order, not more.

2. We have all sinned. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. This does not mean we are terrible people. Sin is quite simply anything less than perfection. To put it another way, the smallest offense against the greatest of beings is the same as the greatest offense against the smallest of beings. God is Holy (perfect / separate) we are not.

3. The sin that we all have separates us from God in what is quite literally spiritual death. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

4. God is merciful and as such He provided a way, the only way to return to fellowship with Him. During the days of Moses, Aaron, Elijah, etc. it was through sacrifice; the lamb which was a symbol of the lamb to come who would take away the sins of the world. Then when the time was right, He sent His one and only Son. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

5. God is a triune God. That does not mean that there are three Gods, only that God within himself has three specific parts which each carry out different things. God the father, God the Son (Jesus) also referred to as the Word, God the Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. The prophecies are very specific and the odds of any one man to fulfill even twenty of the 109 specific messianic prophecies of the ancient rabbinical writings would be astronomical. Jesus fulfilled them all. Born of the house and the line of David (Both Joseph and Mary were directly descended from king David along different lines) Born in the city of David (Bethlehem) Will spend his childhood in Egypt (Jesus spent his childhood in Egypt because of king Herod’s order to kill all male children of his age, out of Herod’s fear derived when scholars from the east came and told him that the promised king had been born) Shall be pierced without breaking a bone (When Jesus was crucified not one of his bones was broken. Not by the nails, not by the spear the soldier thrust into his side and they did not, as was the custom, break his legs so that he would die faster) He was betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (Judas) The list goes on and on, but don’t worry, I won’t list all 109. However, check out Psalms one of the most specific descriptions of the crucifixion in the Bible outside of the gospels and written long before Jesus was even born and during a time when this form of execution was not even in existence. Jesus himself pointed out this reference from the cross so that all the children of Israel would have another indication that He was who He said he was. Just as clearly as if I said, “Row row row your boat” you would all know what came next. Every Israelite (Jew) present would have the books of the law (Torah) and the others memorized since they were children and would immediately recognize this passage when Jesus said, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” He was not giving up, He was giving hope.

7. Nothing we do for or by ourselves is enough to bridge the gap between us and God. But that is not cause to despair, but to rejoice because Jesus has bridged it for us. Galatians 2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Ephesians 2: 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
8. Jesus was crucified (historical fact), died (again historical fact and documented medically. When the spear was thrust into his side and “blood and water flowed” this was because the spear punctured the pericardial sac that holds the heart and is filled with a clear water like liquid and the heart which of course is filled with blood. This alone would kill anyone, especially after the ordeal He had already gone through, which I will not detail here because this post will be long enough already but suffice to say that when He was raised on the cross it would have been difficult to even recognize that He was a man.) and he rose on the third day according to the scriptures and testified to by hundreds of witnesses, not all followers and from all areas of society (in any court of law, that many witnesses would be more than sufficient to close a case)

9. Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice we can have communion with Him and with the Father through Jesus and no one else. John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. That is pretty clear, not by Mohammed, Buddha, reverend Moon, lots of candles or even by a priest. Only through Jesus.

10. Not finally, but I will end with this since I am probably exceeding a limit. He is coming back again.

05-14-2004, 05:09 AM	#40 (permalink)
OldMt.Grizzly Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,051 Rep Power: 85	This thread started a little too vague for me to actually see what there is to debate. If you want proof of one religion over another, that is one thing but religion in general is an incredibly broad subject. Just for the sake of clarification since there seems to be some confusion. A gentile is basically anyone who is not a Jew. A protestant was originally a Gentile who protested against the various violations of the scripture propagated by Catholicism as pointed out by Luther. Science has not proved that we came from the earth, in fact the more digging scientists do, the more concerned they become because they continue to find completely developed species but absolutely no trace of any of the "missing links" in the fossil record. Also, DNA studies have revealed that all mankind can be traced back to one man and one woman. (As in Adam and Eve) I will tell you what I believe and then we will just see where we go from there. If this becomes another vicious thread I will drop it. If there are specific questions or if people want to discuss beliefs openly without attacking (this goes both ways) I will be happy to continue. 1. We were all created by God. YHWH. If I park my truck in front of your house and say look what evolved you would say I was crazy, that truck was made by Dodge. Creation equals creator, not accident. If I throw a hand grenade into my house it will not suddenly become ordered and rational, the "big bang" theory also would not have created order. Even Newton principles show that matter tends to move towards less order, not more. 2. We have all sinned. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. This does not mean we are terrible people. Sin is quite simply anything less than perfection. To put it another way, the smallest offense against the greatest of beings is the same as the greatest offense against the smallest of beings. God is Holy (perfect / separate) we are not. 3. The sin that we all have separates us from God in what is quite literally spiritual death. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 4. God is merciful and as such He provided a way, the only way to return to fellowship with Him. During the days of Moses, Aaron, Elijah, etc. it was through sacrifice; the lamb which was a symbol of the lamb to come who would take away the sins of the world. Then when the time was right, He sent His one and only Son. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. 5. God is a triune God. That does not mean that there are three Gods, only that God within himself has three specific parts which each carry out different things. God the father, God the Son (Jesus) also referred to as the Word, God the Holy Spirit. 6. Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. The prophecies are very specific and the odds of any one man to fulfill even twenty of the 109 specific messianic prophecies of the ancient rabbinical writings would be astronomical. Jesus fulfilled them all. Born of the house and the line of David (Both Joseph and Mary were directly descended from king David along different lines) Born in the city of David (Bethlehem) Will spend his childhood in Egypt (Jesus spent his childhood in Egypt because of king Herod’s order to kill all male children of his age, out of Herod’s fear derived when scholars from the east came and told him that the promised king had been born) Shall be pierced without breaking a bone (When Jesus was crucified not one of his bones was broken. Not by the nails, not by the spear the soldier thrust into his side and they did not, as was the custom, break his legs so that he would die faster) He was betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (Judas) The list goes on and on, but don’t worry, I won’t list all 109. However, check out Psalms one of the most specific descriptions of the crucifixion in the Bible outside of the gospels and written long before Jesus was even born and during a time when this form of execution was not even in existence. Jesus himself pointed out this reference from the cross so that all the children of Israel would have another indication that He was who He said he was. Just as clearly as if I said, “Row row row your boat” you would all know what came next. Every Israelite (Jew) present would have the books of the law (Torah) and the others memorized since they were children and would immediately recognize this passage when Jesus said, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” He was not giving up, He was giving hope. 7. Nothing we do for or by ourselves is enough to bridge the gap between us and God. But that is not cause to despair, but to rejoice because Jesus has bridged it for us. Galatians 2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Ephesians 2: 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. 8. Jesus was crucified (historical fact), died (again historical fact and documented medically. When the spear was thrust into his side and “blood and water flowed” this was because the spear punctured the pericardial sac that holds the heart and is filled with a clear water like liquid and the heart which of course is filled with blood. This alone would kill anyone, especially after the ordeal He had already gone through, which I will not detail here because this post will be long enough already but suffice to say that when He was raised on the cross it would have been difficult to even recognize that He was a man.) and he rose on the third day according to the scriptures and testified to by hundreds of witnesses, not all followers and from all areas of society (in any court of law, that many witnesses would be more than sufficient to close a case) 9. Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice we can have communion with Him and with the Father through Jesus and no one else. John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. That is pretty clear, not by Mohammed, Buddha, reverend Moon, lots of candles or even by a priest. Only through Jesus. 10. Not finally, but I will end with this since I am probably exceeding a limit. He is coming back again.