Jokeroo Community - View Single Post

Alaskan John · 05-17-2008, 06:27 AM

From what I heard on today's news, the 16 year old girl was actually 15 at the time she and the 23 year old had sex but she was within one week of her 16th birthday a the time. Technically that made the sex a statutory rape even if the girl agreed to it or even initiated it, because the girl couldn’t LEGALY consent to sex for another week when she turned 16. The prosecutor reportedly declined to charge the 23 year old, and was quoted as saying that decision was made based on the girl's age at the time of the offense.

American CRIMINAL court:
In the American criminal justice system, the prosecutor has the discretion to prosecute or not to prosecute every case brought to his or her office by law enforcement officials, even when there appears to be enough evidence to build a credible case. Frequently this decision is driven by the need to prioritize the limited prosecution resources to the most egregious cases and other cases that are most likely to end with a conviction. Among any jury of 12 citizens chosen to sit for this case, there are decent odds that at least one juror would be sympathetic to the defendant or find the victim to be less than credible. It only takes one juror voting “not guilty,” to prevent the boy from being convicted. The judge would then have the discretion to nullify the jury’s verdict and issue one from the bench if the judge believed from the evidence that a grave miscarriage of justice would occur if the jury’s verdict were to stand. This discretion is very seldom used by judges, and used with extreme caution when it is used.

So it sounds like this is a case that would not have a high likelihood of being successfully prosecuted based on the victim’s proximity to the legal age of consent, the victim appearing to present as less than credible, and the likelihood that at least one juror might also find sympathy for the accused. My opinion here is based solely on public news reports I have heard. It would not surprise me even a little bit if the prosecutor’s office has additional factual information in the file that further weakens the criminal case, but again, I don’t know anything that hasn’t been reported in the public news media. Just thought I would add this information to the discussion to illustrate how such an emotionally laden charge might end up not being prosecuted in criminal court.

American CIVIL court:
One other element of the American justice system is the civil court. Here criminal charges are not presented or tried. Rather, this is the court where a person can petition the court for relief and remedy (i.e. – “sue”) against someone for allegedly damaging the petitioner in some way. In a case like this one, the 16 year old’s parent or legal guardian can sue the 23 year old for damages even if the 23 yer old is never convicted of a crime in the matter. The suit might seek a monetary award for “actual damages” to pay for any counseling and medical care the 16 year old might need as a result of the 23 year old’s actions; for loss of potential income if it can be shown she has somehow been damaged physically or mentally to the extent that she cannot participate in her own gainful employment or education in a meaningful and productive way; for legal fees incurred; etc, the total amount awarded as actual damages is for the purpose of “making the victim whole” to the maximum extent possible.

Such a successful civil action might also include an amount awarded as “punitive damages” which, as the name implies, is intended to punish the resondent severely enough to virtually eliminate any incentive to do the same thing ever again. (The “respondent” in a civil court is like the “defendant” in criminal court). Punitive damages can easily be double or triple the amount awarded in actual damages.

Different standards of proof:
One other vitally important difference between criminal court and civil court is the standard of proof required. In criminal court, the prosecutor must prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that the defendant is guilty. This standard is frequently described in layman’s terms as requiring the evidence to prove the case to the point that jurors have no REASONABLE doubt that the defendant is guilty. Note that it doesn’t require 100% absolute certainty, but it is still the strongest burden of proof standard in our court system.

In our civil courts, the standard of proof required is a “preponderance of the evidence.” This much lower standard generally requires the petitioner’s evidence to prove that the alleged events were “more likely than not” to have occurred (e.g. – it is sometimes said that this standard requires at least 51% of the evidence to support the allegation). Often times a petitioner can prevail and be awarded damages for events that did not result in criminal convictions due to this lower standard of proof required. One of the most notorious cases in recent American history was the O.J. Simpson murder trial. In the criminal court system a jury found him not guilty; yet in a civil court, the victims’ families were awarded millions of dollars in damages when they successfully sued Simpson for the murders he was found criminally not guilty of.

Conclusions:
The YouTube Rape case sounds to me like it will end up being litigated in civil court, and probably with some degree of success. It sounds like the case will not tried in criminal court unless the public’s hue and cry becomes so totally overwhelming that the prosecutor’s office decides the case must be tried for the sake of public order even though there is a high likelihood the prosecution will end unsuccessfully. I hope this provides some useful information for better understanding some of how the American court system works in a case like this, as the debate continues.

05-17-2008, 06:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
Alaskan John Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Zodiac Sign: Capricorn Rating: Posts: 370	From what I heard on today's news, the 16 year old girl was actually 15 at the time she and the 23 year old had sex but she was within one week of her 16th birthday a the time. Technically that made the sex a statutory rape even if the girl agreed to it or even initiated it, because the girl couldn’t LEGALY consent to sex for another week when she turned 16. The prosecutor reportedly declined to charge the 23 year old, and was quoted as saying that decision was made based on the girl's age at the time of the offense. American CRIMINAL court: In the American criminal justice system, the prosecutor has the discretion to prosecute or not to prosecute every case brought to his or her office by law enforcement officials, even when there appears to be enough evidence to build a credible case. Frequently this decision is driven by the need to prioritize the limited prosecution resources to the most egregious cases and other cases that are most likely to end with a conviction. Among any jury of 12 citizens chosen to sit for this case, there are decent odds that at least one juror would be sympathetic to the defendant or find the victim to be less than credible. It only takes one juror voting “not guilty,” to prevent the boy from being convicted. The judge would then have the discretion to nullify the jury’s verdict and issue one from the bench if the judge believed from the evidence that a grave miscarriage of justice would occur if the jury’s verdict were to stand. This discretion is very seldom used by judges, and used with extreme caution when it is used. So it sounds like this is a case that would not have a high likelihood of being successfully prosecuted based on the victim’s proximity to the legal age of consent, the victim appearing to present as less than credible, and the likelihood that at least one juror might also find sympathy for the accused. My opinion here is based solely on public news reports I have heard. It would not surprise me even a little bit if the prosecutor’s office has additional factual information in the file that further weakens the criminal case, but again, I don’t know anything that hasn’t been reported in the public news media. Just thought I would add this information to the discussion to illustrate how such an emotionally laden charge might end up not being prosecuted in criminal court. American CIVIL court: One other element of the American justice system is the civil court. Here criminal charges are not presented or tried. Rather, this is the court where a person can petition the court for relief and remedy (i.e. – “sue”) against someone for allegedly damaging the petitioner in some way. In a case like this one, the 16 year old’s parent or legal guardian can sue the 23 year old for damages even if the 23 yer old is never convicted of a crime in the matter. The suit might seek a monetary award for “actual damages” to pay for any counseling and medical care the 16 year old might need as a result of the 23 year old’s actions; for loss of potential income if it can be shown she has somehow been damaged physically or mentally to the extent that she cannot participate in her own gainful employment or education in a meaningful and productive way; for legal fees incurred; etc, the total amount awarded as actual damages is for the purpose of “making the victim whole” to the maximum extent possible. Such a successful civil action might also include an amount awarded as “punitive damages” which, as the name implies, is intended to punish the resondent severely enough to virtually eliminate any incentive to do the same thing ever again. (The “respondent” in a civil court is like the “defendant” in criminal court). Punitive damages can easily be double or triple the amount awarded in actual damages. Different standards of proof: One other vitally important difference between criminal court and civil court is the standard of proof required. In criminal court, the prosecutor must prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that the defendant is guilty. This standard is frequently described in layman’s terms as requiring the evidence to prove the case to the point that jurors have no REASONABLE doubt that the defendant is guilty. Note that it doesn’t require 100% absolute certainty, but it is still the strongest burden of proof standard in our court system. In our civil courts, the standard of proof required is a “preponderance of the evidence.” This much lower standard generally requires the petitioner’s evidence to prove that the alleged events were “more likely than not” to have occurred (e.g. – it is sometimes said that this standard requires at least 51% of the evidence to support the allegation). Often times a petitioner can prevail and be awarded damages for events that did not result in criminal convictions due to this lower standard of proof required. One of the most notorious cases in recent American history was the O.J. Simpson murder trial. In the criminal court system a jury found him not guilty; yet in a civil court, the victims’ families were awarded millions of dollars in damages when they successfully sued Simpson for the murders he was found criminally not guilty of. Conclusions: The YouTube Rape case sounds to me like it will end up being litigated in civil court, and probably with some degree of success. It sounds like the case will not tried in criminal court unless the public’s hue and cry becomes so totally overwhelming that the prosecutor’s office decides the case must be tried for the sake of public order even though there is a high likelihood the prosecution will end unsuccessfully. I hope this provides some useful information for better understanding some of how the American court system works in a case like this, as the debate continues. __________________ Thanks Little Bit!