Medically Engineered Humans

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Flynn

It's all well and good to have faith in the medical fraternity who have had tutorials in ethics classes but there are good and bad people in all walks of life, people that can't speak for themselves need a compassionate advocate who understands all the issues.

So who would you suggest?
I don't think anyone is more compassionate then the parents and no one else knows more about the medical side then the doctor who is treating the child. Plus, legally the parents have the final say in any case because the child is underage.
In cases like these the parents have a lot of contact with the doctor and the doctor will have a lot of contact with other independent specialists and of course the hospitals ethics committee. Cooperation between those people has resulted in choosing this treatment. Since there is also a publication linked to the treatment, that would indicate that many specialists will have been involved in the decision and that it is being debated amoung specialists(resulting in other publications).
Cited from one of the resulting publications....
"The child’s parents, pediatric specialists, and ethics consultants agreed on a plan to use hysterectomy followed by high-dose transdermal estrogen to attenuate the child’s growth."
So who do you suggest takes the place of all these people to have the final say? Must be a very special person to take the place of all these different specialists combined.

[anna_hun]

Originally Posted by Flynn

Doc


Ashley does seem to be more of a burdon than a blessing for her parents and that's where the problem is.

If parents have a Downs Syndrome child that is prone to biting other children do we allow the parents to extract their teeth to prevent them from biting another child ?


Does all this lead to a parent saying "I don't want to change diapers on my child I want a colostemy bag fitted " ?

It's all well and good to have faith in the medical fraternity who have had tutorials in ethics classes but there are good and bad people in all walks of life, people that can't speak for themselves need a compassionate advocate who understands all the issues.

Its not just childs-just have a look at some care of the elderly...

[Patrish]

Does anyone here acknowlegde the 'new' findings regarding breast cancer in woman who used an estrogen therapy post menopause? Or due to hysterectomy's?


Ok, science says...'BAD' and women with large amounts [small amounts over ten years] are more prone to cancer...

So, who here thinks like I do, and can see a serious 'side effect' to the massive quantitiy of estrogen it will take to stunt this childs natural growth??

Doesnt 2+2=4?

Or is it because she is brain 'dead' that THIS PAIN [possibly contracting cancer] is less important than say...PMS?

Gee... cramps vs cancer.

[Flynn]

Originally Posted by anna_hun

Its not just childs-just have a look at some care of the elderly...

Good point Ana, hopefully we will all be geriatric one day, I'd hate to think that medical staff could get medically ethical approval to terminate the lives of the elderly to make their jobs easier.

[Patrish]

Face it folks, science wants this little girl for a guinea pig.

But science wont be the ones who have to deal with the heartache of a mishap.

[Flynn]

Originally Posted by Patrish

Does anyone here acknowlegde the 'new' findings regarding breast cancer in woman who used an estrogen therapy post menopause? Or due to hysterectomy's?


Ok, science says...'BAD' and women with large amounts [small amounts over ten years] are more prone to cancer...

So, who here thinks like I do, and can see a serious 'side effect' to the massive quantitiy of estrogen it will take to stunt this childs natural growth??

Doesnt 2+2=4?

Or is it because she is brain 'dead' that THIS PAIN [possibly contracting cancer] is less important than say...PMS?

Gee... cramps vs cancer.

A small percentage of patients who have used estrogen therapy after menopause have gone on to contract breast cancer, one patients death is one too many.


I would like to know where the scientific studies are that doctors used for Ashleys treatment.

[Flynn]

Originally Posted by Dutch

So who would you suggest?
I don't think anyone is more compassionate then the parents and no one else knows more about the medical side then the doctor who is treating the child. Plus, legally the parents have the final say in any case because the child is underage.
In cases like these the parents have a lot of contact with the doctor and the doctor will have a lot of contact with other independent specialists and of course the hospitals ethics committee. Cooperation between those people has resulted in choosing this treatment. Since there is also a publication linked to the treatment, that would indicate that many specialists will have been involved in the decision and that it is being debated amoung specialists(resulting in other publications).
Cited from one of the resulting publications....
"The child’s parents, pediatric specialists, and ethics consultants agreed on a plan to use hysterectomy followed by high-dose transdermal estrogen to attenuate the child’s growth."
So who do you suggest takes the place of all these people to have the final say? Must be a very special person to take the place of all these different specialists combined.

There are plenty of people who are not emotionally or professionally involved in a childs well being that should make those sorts of decisons.

It would be great top look at life through rose coloured galsses and conclude that all parents have their childs best interests at heart, sadly it is not the case, not all parents are as caring as you would have us believe.

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by Flynn

A small percentage of patients who have used estrogen therapy after menopause have gone on to contract breast cancer, one patients death is one too many.


I would like to know where the scientific studies are that doctors used for Ashleys treatment.

As I said the post before this one I am quoting....Ashley is a guinea pig.

And of course, since she isnt able to speak...'who cares'?

Well, if she dies from estrogen overload...will science care?

The material benefits are the sought after outcome. If they succeed...the monetary value will be tremendous.

[Patrish]

.........AND if they fail....?

Ashley loses.

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hi Patrish! Nice to see you.

The difficulty is also in what we are able to do. From medicine for a cold to some of the most extreme treatments. Where are the boundaries? A medicine for cold is accepted as normal, what about Blood Brain Barrier Disruption(BBBD) as part of cancer treatment? That is scary stuff and I wouldn't recommend it, but a person who has cancer and has only this option might not think so. So what about a person who can't think for herself, but who suffers greatly? Who runs a high risk of breast cancer and will experience problems as a result of large breasts. Is it wrong for parents to speak on her behalf and ask for breast growth to be avoided? What would she herself say? Link that to the BBBD example... Unacceptable for a healthy person, acceptable for a sick one who suffers every day.

I doubt having large breasts would make her suffer.
IF she stood all day, then it might bother her back.

Not seeing how it effects her....and remember I am a woman.

Nice to see you too. Glad you noticed.