Let's argue about Religion...I don't get to do that enough!!

[Keshet]

Originally Posted by sybarite

The Bible teaches clearly that all human beings are descendants of Adam and Eve-thus there had to be inter-marriage between brother and sister. There would have been no risk of this causing harmful deformities in the offspring because mutations need time to occur and accumulate in a population. Thus the first few generations would have inherited perfect or near perfect genes, largely undamaged by mutations. In the pre-flood world harmful radiation from the sun and other cosmic sources was considerably more filtered than it is in the post flood world. Increased radiation and a depletion of oxygen in the atmosphere may have contributed greatly to mans rapid degeneration.

With the passing of many centuries many of these harmful degenerative changes became added to the human race, so by the time of Moses it was absolutely necessary to have laws against incest, (Leviticus 18-20). Today there would be even more chance of deformity/disease in the offspring of such a union than in Moses's time. Because of the long life-spans, Adam and Eve's descendants may have been very numerous and widely dispersed before Cain ever took a wife-that is, any inhabitants of the land of Nod would have been descendants of Adam and Eve, who had many sons and daughters.

Again:"the Bible says..."

What do YOU say? And what about the different human races? (I know Im asking again)

[lestrex]

You say I should believe in what can be proved by archaeology, then which bone collector should I believe the one you want me to believe in, the ones that found "what" exactly that certain towns existed that are in the bible , or did they actually find the ten commandments or Jesus sandals with his name in .
Or should I believe the finds that I know off like the Neanderthal man a rough looking cave dweller did he come from Adam and Eve or did he live before them, if he came after did he bare resemblance to them both, and God, and the fact that dinosaurs existed but don’t get much of a mention in the bible just a small part in the creation of our planet not really important but fact non the less

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by lestrex

You say I should believe in what can be proved by archaeology, then which bone collector should I believe the one you want me to believe in, the ones that found "what" exactly that certain towns existed that are in the bible , or did they actually find the ten commandments or Jesus sandals with his name in .
Or should I believe the finds that I know off like the Neanderthal man a rough looking cave dweller did he come from Adam and Eve or did he live before them, if he came after did he bare resemblance to them both, and God, and the fact that dinosaurs existed but don’t get much of a mention in the bible just a small part in the creation of our planet not really important but fact non the less

NOT all archeologists are looking for biblical proofs, so that should narrow the search.

The famous ones have died..and some that existed in the 1800's uncovered some good stuff.

Libraries might have more info.

AND according to some experts, the cave man died along side the 'modern man' so can this be explained??
One thing tho....its not like they have ever found 'thousands of cave men, but a select amount, which could proove a mutation that was not beneficial and they died off ...perhaps they are equivelent to 'downs syndrome' only the dna had other issues.

There are no definitive answers, but in {?}Africa..I believe, in the caves they found both modern man and cave ppl at the same 'age' carbon tested. Explain that.

Another thing... dinosaurs may not have been included in Genesis, but the text of the beginning did NOT exclude it either. Read between the lines...

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by Keshet

Without God? why without? Is it the whole package or none at all? Either I believe in God and the whole Bible thing or I dont believe in anything?
God couldnt make evolution happen? The elephant evoluting from the mammoth and the human from the ape?

And the incest thing still doesnt convince me... sorry

One more thing, I dont understand what you meant by: "Funny how these boxes get very little LIGHT in them. {Analogy of God's essense, for those who did not perceive it}"
What are the boxes?
And by the way: I also believe God is light (or energy), just not male

Ok, if we pretend evolution without God exists,

I am standing on the hypothesis that only evolution exists, BUT I believe God created evolution.
HE did so in Genesis when He told the serpent that he would 'lose his legs and crawl'.

Keshet...anyone can believe anything, but it does not mean it will bring them salvation. Does it?

I could believe that we go to heaven in hot air balloons, but if this is NOT what God intended, then it is an error. I cannot make it correct just by saying it is so...I must have evidence that I am correct. Biblical writings have stood time, and the OT produced prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. NOW we should turn to Jesus and see WHY He fulfilled them, and what purpose He had in life.

Why do millions believe in Him...and what brot them this faith?

It is NOT mind manipulation...it is more than that. Grace is not something anyone can give or describe.
Grace is what 'submits' man to doing the will of God thru His Word.

Wish I could explain it...but I will put it this way...Grace lights a fire into a human's soul and they comprehend what is written, whereas they could not b4.
Grace carries a person onward without fear, neither of society and peer pressure nor standing up and affirming faith.
Grace is the gift that 'makes sense' of scripture and the understanding of Christ is God becomes a part of the soul...it is not something we 'think about' but it fills us with UNDERSTANDING.

That is the Holy Spirit working...the Trinity.

NO religion nor person can give this...and this is what binds mankind to religion.

sigh.........the whole thing is not rreasoning with human thots...and it cannot be explained.

Pray for grace, and you will see what I mean.

Peace!

[lestrex]

Originally Posted by Keshet

Well... theres a difference between believing in God and believing in the Bible.
About all the disasters and suffering in the world... we cant expect to understand the reasons for everything that happens, but I do believe that it all happens for a reason. Didnt ever happen to you that something you wanted very much didnt happen or that you lost something and felt that it was so unfair and after a while you realized that actually it had to turn out to happen that way for something else to happen? I know it did to me...

About the Native Americans... we do have a lot to learn from their culture.

ime sorry but the death of a new born child hours into its life can have no meaningful effect except to bring sadness to those whom it concerns , no one not even God should have the right to play with life if our creator as a reason for putting some people through hell while others live in luxury then the creator is sick, if our lives had an outside influence then just take a look at our world and what happens in it, I would not let the kind of person who allows such suffering into my life

[lestrex]

Originally Posted by Patrish

NOT all archeologists are looking for biblical proofs, so that should narrow the search.

The famous ones have died..and some that existed in the 1800's uncovered some good stuff.

Libraries might have more info.

AND according to some experts, the cave man died along side the 'modern man' so can this be explained??
One thing tho....its not like they have ever found 'thousands of cave men, but a select amount, which could proove a mutation that was not beneficial and they died off ...perhaps they are equivelent to 'downs syndrome' only the dna had other issues.

There are no definitive answers, but in {?}Africa..I believe, in the caves they found both modern man and cave ppl at the same 'age' carbon tested. Explain that.

Another thing... dinosaurs may not have been included in Genesis, but the text of the beginning did NOT exclude it either. Read between the lines...

and so did god create man did Adam look like a caveman or not no Adam was the perfect human being and yet from him and is DNA we had all sort of mutations according to the bone collectors so infact human form went backwards in development then forwards again what the eke lol and so some more life was wasted by God according to your theory, there was a man who used the same kind of theory for the perfect race lets thank ourselves for not following him into is ideal world where people where killed or left to die for not conforming to his standards
ps what is good stuff ?

[Keshet]

Originally Posted by Patrish

I am standing on the hypothesis that only evolution exists, BUT I believe God created evolution.
HE did so in Genesis when He told the serpent that he would 'lose his legs and crawl'.

Keshet...anyone can believe anything, but it does not mean it will bring them salvation. Does it?

I could believe that we go to heaven in hot air balloons, but if this is NOT what God intended, then it is an error. I cannot make it correct just by saying it is so...I must have evidence that I am correct. Biblical writings have stood time, and the OT produced prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. NOW we should turn to Jesus and see WHY He fulfilled them, and what purpose He had in life.

Why do millions believe in Him...and what brot them this faith?

It is NOT mind manipulation...it is more than that. Grace is not something anyone can give or describe.
Grace is what 'submits' man to doing the will of God thru His Word.

Wish I could explain it...but I will put it this way...Grace lights a fire into a human's soul and they comprehend what is written, whereas they could not b4.
Grace carries a person onward without fear, neither of society and peer pressure nor standing up and affirming faith.
Grace is the gift that 'makes sense' of scripture and the understanding of Christ is God becomes a part of the soul...it is not something we 'think about' but it fills us with UNDERSTANDING.

That is the Holy Spirit working...the Trinity.

NO religion nor person can give this...and this is what binds mankind to religion.

sigh.........the whole thing is not rreasoning with human thots...and it cannot be explained.

Pray for grace, and you will see what I mean.

Peace!

salvation according to the bible again... well, im getting tired of repeating myself u know what i believe by now

[Keshet]

Originally Posted by lestrex

ime sorry but the death of a new born child hours into its life can have no meaningful effect except to bring sadness to those whom it concerns , no one not even God should have the right to play with life if our creator as a reason for putting some people through hell while others live in luxury then the creator is sick, if our lives had an outside influence then just take a look at our world and what happens in it, I would not let the kind of person who allows such suffering into my life

suffering makes sense if u believe in reincarnation. at the same time, death shouldnt bring suffering if u dont see it as an end, but as the beginning of the next stage.
even though i trully believe in that i cant tell u that is easy to do, im still attached to the human body and feel as a human too (and theres a lesson to learn from feeling that way too).

one question: what do u believe in?

[Keshet]

Originally Posted by lestrex

and so did god create man did Adam look like a caveman or not no Adam was the perfect human being and yet from him and is DNA we had all sort of mutations according to the bone collectors so infact human form went backwards in development then forwards again what the eke lol and so some more life was wasted by God according to your theory, there was a man who used the same kind of theory for the perfect race lets thank ourselves for not following him into is ideal world where people where killed or left to die for not conforming to his standards
ps what is good stuff ?

great point, Lestrex

[Patrish]

Quote:




ime sorry but the death of a new born child hours into its life can have no meaningful effect except to bring sadness to those whom it concerns , no one not even God should have the right to play with life if our creator as a reason for putting some people through hell while others live in luxury then the creator is sick, if our lives had an outside influence then just take a look at our world and what happens in it, I would not let the kind of person who allows such suffering into my life

I dont know 'IF' miscarrying, losing my dad, losing two young nephews in a period of 7 months, losing my grandfather at age 10 whom I saw as a father, and losing yet another set of twins is a good comparison for pain related losses or not.

Never mind that, because they ARE with God, and I shall reunite with them and live out eternity peacefully {I can always hope}. This is what I pray, the more I pray the more the Lord carries me thru all pain. I pray He always stays by my side to help me.

Again Keshet...the Bible prophecied the 'Christ' and the Christ came,,,,300 prophecies HE fulfilled from OT which was thousands of years in the 'production' of the life of Christ....yet no where on earth are there fulfilled promises pointing to 'reincarnation.'
In fact reincarnation is manifest only in imagination.
There have been no miracles related.



There is more proof in the Bible and Jesus' death and resurrection than in anything else in life.
EVEN pagans knew Jesus....and I already have a post on their writings.

YOU cannot remove the Bible, because it is older than any other writing.......and with staying power. Not because it makes sense..BUT because it is hard to live by. Therefore only a Good God would create such laws. They certainly are contrary to the desires of men..arent they?

Lestrex, again...WHEN MANKIND CHOOSE TO DISOBEY GOD..and the free will is what we have, means we choose all...ALL..of satan's empty promises. THAT is what brot on our pain and deaths and suffering and sicknesses and all hosts of evil.

WE came to this by our parents choice.
Perhaps you feel it unfair...? But do you or do you not revel in 'sin?'

Perhaps lusting after someone, or fantasizing, or playing alone well... anyway, we all as humans choose sin over good all the time, so it is not like we even make the effort to abstain from sin, and then we cry out we should not all have to suffer???

How many times a day do you do wrong by someone? How many times do we 'seek' revenge...or perhaps for some...look at porn, or watch movies and tv that are vile and or nasty...and humans 'love it.' and they...'Just do it."

Tell me....what would your life be without all of this? Boring perhaps?? Isnt it exciting to seek pleasure or erotica from stuff we innately somehow feel is 'so deliciously wrong'?

Then there you have it...your daily 'free will' choice to either find evil appealing, or to denounce it.

YOU see no wrong in it...do you?
You feel it is probably healthy, if not interesting, or satisfying?

That is the 'free will' Adam and Eve had..and they 'enjoyed it too.'

THIS is why we have the pain we do...because we cannot break away from the father of sin.

Any explanation otherwise would be lying to ourselves.

Personally, I know the temptations of this world, I dont contemplate them, or live off of them, but I am unandated with them in my face all the time.

Take a look around here.. So much flesh..and I add, this is what attracts ppl here. THIS is the POPULAR culture..the naughty stuff that attracts ppl like a moth to a flame. {Key foot note here} I was an original member back in 2001, and we did not have pics, we did not have a mature section, we did not have any cussing {It was censored} so it is not that I came for these reasons, but this is what my 1st forum has turned into.

SO if you state that you could have done a better job than Adam or Eve, then I present to you...the way of Life to God again...avoid the sins, refuse to live in them, and look towards God.

IF you manage that, then indeed you are better than Adam or Eve...and you will have less pain in your life even when pain comes; otherwise you can sit back and say you are helpless to the pain in life and blame God..when we all know darn well, it is OUR OWN doing.

Peace!