Let's argue about Religion...I don't get to do that enough!!

[Patrish]

DUH...you said argue religion!!! ....and I made one reference to you in a personal way...to stop someone else from being harmful to themselves is MY OPTION, even if it offends YOU!

LOL, so, ya think I am lacking education of the historical religions? And some of the new relgions?
And who here seems to think they know someone else?

I did peg you correctly, you are not seeking answers...are you?

This thread is all about YOUR arguement.

What faith am I? Apparently you either skimmed everything, or you didn't even lay eyes on what I already said..

Now supposing I didn't know other religions, which is UNTRUE, but if I didn't....you call me closed minded? Am I correct?
Is this typical arguement to make validity to all relgions? This is more a curiousity than a statement.....if you but did understand the differences. From how I debate.

Buddhism started in India, it is an actual philosophy that evolved into a religion. It was formed about 500 BCE...(Before the common era, and not BC, before Christ...)
Buddha, named Siddhartha was a Prince, and on two occasions he left the grounds to see diferent things.
The 1st journey he saw death, and suffering, the 2nd he saw a man who was homeless dressed in a 'monk's' atire....this man told him he both feared being born and dying, so he lived homeless.
Buddha left his family to do the same. He fasted frequently and became weak. While in a weak moment, he meditated on his 'reincarnations'.
"Setting in Motion the Wheel of Doctrine." He decided we should neither have the pleasures he once had as a prince, nor suffer like a pauper.
This is where HE decided nirvana would come.
a blacksmith named Cuanda gave him a meal that caused him to become ill. He died shortly after. Saying we must all work out our salvation.
The error in the story is the incredulous occrences that led to and existed in the telling tale. The Chinese have adopted this man's philosophy as religion. He sought only nirvana....but taught reincarnations.

Hinsuism, another religion that began in India.
no single founder but grew over a period of 4,000 years in syncretism with the religious and cultural movements of the Indian subcontinent. Hinduism is composed of innumerable sects and has no well-defined ecclesiastical organization. Its two most general features are the caste system and acceptance of the Veda as the most sacred scriptures.
Hinduism is a synthesis of the religion brought into India by the Aryans (c.1500 ) and indigenous religion.
(Aryians were fierce battle lords in the biblical era, and they destroyed the temple of Solomon, and took the Isrealites, to Babylon, where the mixed fairths co~existed, and the first written account of a bible was borne. Also, I point out, Hinduism was a paganistic view)
They also believe in Karma, and reincarnation. Unlike Buddhist who believe in many human lives, they believe in another life as an animal.
They accepted yogic practices and their goals, recognized the gods and image worship of popular devotional movements, and adopted greater concern for the daily life of the people. ALL spoken of in psalms, the lament of Sion. And in Kings, when the Jews were forced to live with pagans.

Mormons, seven day adventists, and latter day saints, and Jehovah witnesses, all contradictory christianity.
Although they follow the christian bible, and have evolved the 'King James version' they each have gone off in severe directions from the original teachings. Adding some things.
JW's changed the tetragammaton from YHWH to JHVH, and have rescinded St John's words, stating in their own words, and books written by their own people, that the 'scripture' quotes were added refering to Jesus as God. But, cannot dispute all other parts where Jesus is also shown as God.
Mormons believe that Jesus lived on several planets and was only killed on earth. (This is not an account of the bible, and in truth they cannot specify how they know this ever occured)
Seven day adventists spilt off of JW's.

Judaism, aka Jewish faith, is the original writers of the Bible.
The choosen people. They no longer recorded biblical text after the Christ, but still they did not follow Him, and believed him as a prophet. When they turned their backs on Jesus, and on the apostles, although they were choosen to be told first, before pagans and Gentiles, they still await the coming of the Messiah.

Although they did not grasp, they were desiring the deliverence from Roman empire, it did occur after Christ, but they still have let this pass by.
Islam is a descendent of Abraham....his illigitimate son became the prince of Iraq, but it was known as the desert then.
He was a baby, and was fled to the desert...with his mother.
The same concepts of the time of Abraham gave rule to the Islamic religion, which is conceptually a peaceful society...until now.

[Patrish]

These are the main religions of the world;
Islam Judaism Buddhism Animism Christianity Hinduism

Animism; can be practiced by anyone who believes in spirituality but does not proscribe to any specific organized religion. The basis for animism is acknowledgment that there is a spiritual realm which humans share the universe with. The concepts that humans possess souls and that souls have life apart from human bodies before and after death are central to animism, along with the ideas that animals, plants, and celestial bodies have spirits.

Animistic gods often are immortalized by mythology explaining the creation
of fire, wind, water, man, animals, and other natural earthly things. Although specific beliefs of animism vary widely, similarities between the characteristics of gods and goddesses and rituals practiced by animistic societies exist. The presence of holy men or women, visions, trancing, dancing, sacred items, and sacred spaces for worship, and the connection felt to the spirits of ancestors are characteristic of animistic societies.

Again, pagans, as in the biblical terms. Those who fell into idol worshipping. These may have been the cause for much of the anger of God. Since they are one of the oldest religions around.

Did you know, as point to reference, that King Solomon was historically and biblically unsurpassed for knowledge, and the Assyrian inscriptions found in archealogical digs, showed he lived between 916~938 BC.
His works of 3000 proverbs, and 1005 songs were all destroyed by the Assyrian army, giving proof to when God asked him which boon he wanted, instead of wealth, and what not, he choose to be endowed with an understanding heart that he might judge the people committed to him. His request was granted; ;and riches and honour were added thereto, with a promise of length of days if he kept God's commandments. In consequence of this endowment, he was reputed to be wiser than all men; people flocked from all quarters to hear his wisdom; and the Queen of Sheba, in particular, came to prove him with hard questions. He was at once a philosopher and a poet. His utterances embraced references alike to the vegetable and the animal kingdoms. So great, indeed, was his reputation for practical insight that in later times the bulk of the Hebrew Gnomic literature was ascribed to him. In the light of after-events, it is impossible fully to endorse the historian's estimate of his sagacity (knowledge).

To his oppressive exactions, in furtherance of his schemes of luxury and magnificence, was due the discontent which in the reign of his son broke his kingdom in two, and ultimately led to the destruction in detail of the Hebrew nation by the power of Assyria and Babylon. It is clear likewise that, besides being fond of display, he was voluptuous and sensual, and that he was led by his wives and concubines to worship strange gods.

I wanted to show you how God made no tales. Because he promised Solomon he would be the wisest there ever was...and indeed, all his works were burned, but his knowldge was still accounted for.


Just thought on your religious quest, you would find the links fascinating.

[Patrish]

Wow! Do you go to extremes or what? Now, I am not a Satanist at all. I believe that Satan is a Christian concept and belongs with the Christians. Satan means "Adversary", in fact Satan's real names Sataniel, Mastema, Beliar or Beliel, Duma, Gadreel, Azazel, Sammael, Angel of Edom, he has many names. Anyway, I don't think that the Christian Satan that you are talking about is the same one that this person believes in.

I dont go to extremes. I make points. My points are based on what is said. Counterpoints are how one debates. GUESS I made MY POINT!

Why is it that when you are talking to someone who follows Satanism, you believe that when he/she (excuse me I don't know your gender) talks about sins, this person means MURDER? Oh so they are Satanic it must be murder. LOLOLOL

Because murder is part of satanism. Unless this has changed,,,,since the time someone I knew was involved. Sacrifice of animals, and in some extreme cases, blood of human sacrifice is drank. But, unless it changed, this is what I heard it was about

I think that if someone killed their brother, sister, child, etc. they would not go running to the murderer and say "You must seek my Forgiveness". I think they would go to the police and have this person arrested and tossed in prison with a nice death penalty slapped on them. I would.

Like..That was my point. They said they did not seek forgiveness, and they felt NO REMORSE!! Therefore...IF SOMEONE DID THIS TO THEM....SHOULD THEY THEN FEEL THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED THE ACT WAS OK,,,,?
Man how I wish my words were not mistaken for what I state them as.

You can go pray for them or whatever. Forget that! Would I seek revenge on someone that did this to one of my family? You better believe I would. They would go down in a big way with all the power of the law behind me.

You proove my very point...how this is UNFAIR TO SOCIETY!

We do not ask something that is not there (I mean no offense by this statement, I'm paraphrasing parts of the Satanic Bible.) to forgive us for what we have done.

Clearly he/she is talking about God here. No belief that God is there so no need to ask God for forgiveness.

Without forgiveness for what they do, is a general and broad statement, and he did NOT clarify this. Subjective to interpretation. And without regard to society...when saying "to forgive us for what we have done."

Sure, we feel guilty for it, but Life is for doing what you want to. Doing what makes you happy. Our motto is do what you will.

This is why I'm not a Satanist. No offense, your religion is your own. But it seems to me that Satanist are out for personal pleasure only. Notice how they use the pentacle inverted as their symbol. The pentacle represents "Spirit over body". Inverted it means "Flesh over Spirit". It's all about pleasing oneself. They do not believe in a Spirit or Soul, yet they worship one? How odd.

BINGO!!

It made them happy, why should you care if you loved them and miss them...as long as they are happy....ok gotcha...what a sick way to life..sorry...Oops..I should NOT apologise...so anyway...guess we get what we seek...so be it.
It would make me utterly happy to rip you apart on this...but I wont, because as a Christian I am contained to remember the humanness you possess and love you anyway

I'll give you a little credit here. You saw what I said. It's about pleasing themselves. I still think that you went to an extreme with your example but "because I am a Christian yadda yadda yadda love you anyway? "
Would you love the person that killed your parent, child, brother, sister, etc. anyway because you are a Christian? Why do Christians believe that they must substain from normal emotions that one would feel and love everyone no matter what they do?

Because we are NO better than anyone else. As much as we all like to think so, we are not...and therefore, God sees all his children in the same love, and only he has the option to judge their hearts. Hearts can be sorry, and absolve themselves with God's mercy. NOT at all easy. The most difficult aspect is to NOT hate, but to find...'perfection' one must make themselves humbles....

I would be angry and they would know it. I would not love them at all. I would say " Enjoy your prison time you sick freak! Oh and I hope you have a horrible death" Yep that's what I would say. I'm not going to hide MY emotions if this happened.

That is typical, and to be honest, God would NOT hate us, but he would be grieved because he knows if the other person repented, and altho as humans we cannot see hearts, our unyielding would grieve Him. Because we place our own sorrowful hearts above theirs. Not seeing their human ness and their own pain, but believing they do not have the pain...when we do not know for sure, what grief they hold in their actions.

In other words, can we commit an act that is unspeakable, but still have hope that God will forgive us, but in turn, NOT give forgiveness to someone else, who in the same spot, feels just as much.

It is a difficult concept, and a very difficult action, but believe it or not, forgiveness heals

[OldMt.Grizzly]

[quote=heythere46]You are speaking as if it is a proven eqaution that there is ONE GOD, but it may not be that simple. You are saying that any religion may be right only if it consistently follows what we believe to be true, and it doesn't contradict itself!! That is the most closed-minded point of view I have ever heard!! If you tell me that the Bible has not one contradiction, then I will call you a liar. I may not be a Bible scholar, so I can't point you in the direction of a particular pair of reference scriptures, but I know that the Bible has contradictions! Also, most of the Bible takes place before history, as in Pre-history, so how can we declare anything to be factual about that time? The fact that some people SAY that a staff turned into a serpent does not mean that it did, or that it is meant in a literal way.
I am sorry to say this, but all your Bible-thumping may have granted you a closed-mind to any other possibilities of "TRUTH"!



Back up a minute hoss. I am not "thumping a Bible". Look more carefully at what I said. "if the Bible is true (and it is) then it states very plainly that there is only ONE GOD." Notice the "IF". I believe it is true, but I put the IF in there for a reason. If the Bible is not true then it is not okay as a basis for a religion and more than that it is a terribly evil book because it has led many many millions to follow a false path.
Also, I would be careful about making the statement that the Bible contradicts itself. Many groups throughout the world make that claim but fail to look at the context of the alleged contradiction. I may be a lot of things, but I am not a liar. If there is a seeming contradiction that you are having trouble with, tell me what it is and I will see if I can help you to understand the meaning of both apparently contradicting statements. By the way, if you don't know of any references that contradict each other, then how do you know that they exist? Is it just because someone told you or have you run across them before and just can't remember which ones right now.

Many people have also tried to claim that there is no proof of the events in the Bible, but interestingly enough, each time some scholar comes up with a kingdom or individual that they claim never existed, some archeologist digs up a brick, or an old parchment or something that verifies the text of the Bible. Also, if you can not take the word of numerous people recording history, then in all fairness you really can't believe anything that happened outside of your lifetime or even outside of your own observations and I am sure you are not saying that.

I actually keep a very open mind and look constantly for information that I don't already possess. I don't remember who said it right now but a very wise saying is, "The more we learn, the more we realize how much we don't know." However, I don't open my mind to just anything without testing it first and I don't keep it so "open" that my brain falls out of my ear. LOL

[Patrish]

LOL @ your last paragraph, Grizwald.

~~>

However, I don't open my mind to just anything without testing it first and I don't keep it so "open" that my brain falls out of my ear. LOL

[theifoncross]

Griz... that last part sounds like a quote I read from Ghandi recently. It went "I refuse to let anyone walk across my clean mind with dirty feet." lol

You got me pegged for one thing...I did skim a lot of the long-as pointless posts of yours only because you seem to be preaching. No, I did not catch your religion or Doctrine, but I do know that you have some kind of ego problem. I try to tell you that you have a closed mind, and you respond with 3 huge ass posts that I don't have time to read explaining only the religions that are taught thoroughly in high school. Now, I may be wrong about your knowledge of world religions, but I see a problem. I was defending the Satanist from your sterotypical views and you accuse me of calling you a Satanist. I don't know where that came from, but I think you got little crazy there! Now my arguement all along was that religion should be what you make of it, you would know this if you didn't just skim my short posts. If a Satanist believes that murder is wrong, then he/she will not do it unless they are idiots...where would that leave that person. they believe everything about Satanism except the murdeing part, and still wants to be a Satanist. That is my dilemma, and probably some others' as well. Maybe even you, you may believe everything about your "Doctrine" except one or two sayings.

By the way Patrish, I am sorry if I offended you, but I was just trying to stick up for the soft-spoken(although I am one). Don't take what I put in these posts too seriously, as I am more open-minded than I make myself out to be.

[OldMt.Grizzly]

Thief, I love that quote. That is very cool and very to the point.

[theifoncross]

Originally Posted by OldMt.Grizzly

Thief, I love that quote. That is very cool and very to the point.

Not that our minds are really all that clean LOL

[OldMt.Grizzly]

Originally Posted by theifoncross

Not that our minds are really all that clean LOL

That is true, but even in the old days when people had dirt floors, they wood sweep the floor to try to keep it clean. LOL

Of course some of us need to use a shovel before we switch to the broom but we are trying.