Let's argue about Religion...I don't get to do that enough!!

[FreakyStylie]

Originally Posted by heythere46

Can you explain Born Again Christian to me, cuz it sounds like bologna, but I might be wrong, and I want you to tell me if I am wrong!

Hrrmmm . . . Can this be answered? I don't think it is something that can be summed up in a few paragraphs.

It is a personal relationship, not just routines and guidelines as is a religion. I think that part of it is being "born of the spirit" and realizing that we are more than just flesh. Emotions are fleshly feelings, but the spirit is something more.

Christian is the second part and means that somebody believes in Jesus' saving our spirits. None of us are, or ever could be perfect. Heaven is perfect, so we could not be in Heaven, otherwise it would no longer be perfect. Without Him, we would all fall short and miss out.

A born again Christian, to me, is somebody who wishes to know Jesus, thusly becoming His student, or desciple, and desires with their spirit to know Him and His Word. Literally translated, Christian would mean "little christ".

But, like I said, there is no way to sum it up in a few paragraphs. There are thousands of pages in the Bible, and it even says to read it for yourself. People could try to pervert it, or misunderstand it, and lead us astray.

[wolfemech]

Originally Posted by Goofy

So Wolfeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee was it me that made ya say that statement "I either think yer retarded (me) or a nice person?" hehehehehehe
Presbyterian here (but I voted for Protestant which I think is close to the same)

Now I see why you picked the name Goofy. No I don't thnk you are retarded. I think you have a good sense of humor, maybe sometimes a little sick but a good one. LOL
Retarded would be this one guy I saw on the street one day trying to kick an imaginary dog with his foot and shouting cuss words while he was doing it. Unless that was you? Was that you that day Gooooffy? Come on you can tell me the truth

[lilbratbfb]

Originally Posted by sabrake

Remeber there have been more wars fought over religion that anything else in history

So very true and yet another point well made against religion. Religion is supposed to be your salvation, but if someone doesn't agree with you and conform to your ways lets just kill 'em? I don't get it.

Originally Posted by wolfemech

Wow heythere I feel ya. I was baptisted as a catholic when I was an infant and in the Catholic church you can only be baptisted one time for a religion. Hince even if I ever join another relgion and get baptisted i will always be catholic because I was first baptisted that.
My oldest brother sincerely does not believe this as he has been baptisted into 4 different religions.
Also in the catholic faith only the preist is allowed to read the bible and understand what it says. And mass is about as boring as it gets. I wish my parents would have let me choose my own religion in life.

Hate to say it Wolfemech, but you are wrong. You actually are allowed to get baptised inot as many faiths as you wish...it is your life! My priest told me when I was at confession for my confirmation(first and only time, 8 years ago) that if I find I don't agree with the church anymore, to start researching in what you do believe in, and get baptised in the faith that best suits you. I can only say that you have a few of your Catholic beliefs wrong, but that doesn't mean you are wrong, just means that there was/is a miscommunication in your information somewhere.

AND, everyone in the Catholic church is ENCOURAGED to read the Bible and try to understand what it means, literally or abstractly, and what it means to you on a personal level. By all means try to prove me wrong, but I got a Bible for my Confirmation from the CHURCH!

Originally Posted by [size=1

FreakyStylie]...Literally translated, Christian would mean "little christ"....

[/size]
thats kinda strange if you ask me, cuz Christ means "THE CHRISTENED ONE". now, if it means that, then Christian means "THE LITTLE CHRISTENED ONE"? sorry, but I think that one is open to interpretation...as for the religion itself, it sounds good...as you don't necessarily need to follow traditional Christian beliefs, you can just do it your own way, and get to know yourself and Jesus...I think that is what it means, tell me if I got it wrong!!!

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by heythere46

I should have waited until I actually believed in what the church teaches before I made that oath.

Evidently, part of you DOES believe...or it wouldnt bother you.

You sound like you are searching out for someone to hand over the ultimate answers, and have God Himself make an appearance.....
sound familiar?

yes, you questioned him many times...and further...you do believe.....but you have NOT been shown how and why...
just given the 'rough copy' to study...

My friend...you have to seek to find. Ask and you shall find.

It is true...and I myself have sought and found.

[FreakyStylie]

Originally Posted by heythere46

Quote: Originally Posted by [size=1
FreakyStylie]...Literally translated, Christian would mean "little christ"....

[/size]
thats kinda strange if you ask me, cuz Christ means "THE CHRISTENED ONE". now, if it means that, then Christian means "THE LITTLE CHRISTENED ONE"? sorry, but I think that one is open to interpretation...as for the religion itself, it sounds good...as you don't necessarily need to follow traditional Christian beliefs, you can just do it your own way, and get to know yourself and Jesus...I think that is what it means, tell me if I got it wrong!!!

Actually, christ means "annointed". Christened has it's rood word in christ, so it makes no sense to define a word with itself. But it holds the same basic meaning. Being blessed, covered, annointed, touched . . . etc, by God. Jesus had the full annointing - The Christ - the fully annointed one. Others can only receive partial annointing, as we are not God.

"as for the religion itself", to me, it is not a religion. Again, religion, by definition, could include brushing your teeth. It is simply that you must read what the Bible has to say in order to base judgement on it. Just like you can't know a person without meeting them. Everything is in there, and most "religions" take a main portion and "obsess" on an aspect. Jesus refers to twelve different churches with twelve different natures, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. So, there aren't really traditional "Christian" beliefs - the Catholic & Protestant churches used to be the same church until there was a internal conflict, now they war with each other. Each believes they are supremely correct, so "you can just do it your own way, and get to know yourself and Jesus", as long as we know we'll never be 100% correct.

Like I said, I don't think anybody could explain it all, and I surely don't know it all either. I could be just as lost as the next person, if not more. The Bible is the source of the Christian and Jewish types of religions, so that would be the place to go to understand them. It can be very exciting to find the mysteries. Besides, how can a person claim to know about it, if they haven't studied it?

[hortysir]

Jesus tells us "I am the way and the light. No man enters heaven except through me."
Seems pretty simple to me.

[Jon Collardgreens]

Careful brother Horty U & me ain't gonna

get into this again w/these different religions.
U & me we've ben there & done that.
Lets just spy on them from time to time & ignore
these arguments. I agree w/ya horty but we'll never
get people to believe our side. Theres one guy just
looking to pick a bone w/ us. Thats why I'm not startin
anymore stuff.

[FreakyStylie]

Amen brotherman! It really is a simple thing. For some people it takes a complexity to make it simple, and some always want things to be tough. How wonderful to be able to "take our rest"!

Originally Posted by hortysir

Jesus tells us "I am the way and the light. No man enters heaven except through me."
Seems pretty simple to me.

[OldMt.Grizzly]

This thread started a little too vague for me to actually see what there is to debate. If you want proof of one religion over another, that is one thing but religion in general is an incredibly broad subject.

Just for the sake of clarification since there seems to be some confusion. A gentile is basically anyone who is not a Jew. A protestant was originally a Gentile who protested against the various violations of the scripture propagated by Catholicism as pointed out by Luther.

Science has not proved that we came from the earth, in fact the more digging scientists do, the more concerned they become because they continue to find completely developed species but absolutely no trace of any of the "missing links" in the fossil record. Also, DNA studies have revealed that all mankind can be traced back to one man and one woman. (As in Adam and Eve)


I will tell you what I believe and then we will just see where we go from there. If this becomes another vicious thread I will drop it. If there are specific questions or if people want to discuss beliefs openly without attacking (this goes both ways) I will be happy to continue.

1. We were all created by God. YHWH. If I park my truck in front of your house and say look what evolved you would say I was crazy, that truck was made by Dodge. Creation equals creator, not accident. If I throw a hand grenade into my house it will not suddenly become ordered and rational, the "big bang" theory also would not have created order. Even Newton principles show that matter tends to move towards less order, not more.

2. We have all sinned. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. This does not mean we are terrible people. Sin is quite simply anything less than perfection. To put it another way, the smallest offense against the greatest of beings is the same as the greatest offense against the smallest of beings. God is Holy (perfect / separate) we are not.

3. The sin that we all have separates us from God in what is quite literally spiritual death. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

4. God is merciful and as such He provided a way, the only way to return to fellowship with Him. During the days of Moses, Aaron, Elijah, etc. it was through sacrifice; the lamb which was a symbol of the lamb to come who would take away the sins of the world. Then when the time was right, He sent His one and only Son. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

5. God is a triune God. That does not mean that there are three Gods, only that God within himself has three specific parts which each carry out different things. God the father, God the Son (Jesus) also referred to as the Word, God the Holy Spirit.
6. Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Old Testament. The prophecies are very specific and the odds of any one man to fulfill even twenty of the 109 specific messianic prophecies of the ancient rabbinical writings would be astronomical. Jesus fulfilled them all. Born of the house and the line of David (Both Joseph and Mary were directly descended from king David along different lines) Born in the city of David (Bethlehem) Will spend his childhood in Egypt (Jesus spent his childhood in Egypt because of king Herod’s order to kill all male children of his age, out of Herod’s fear derived when scholars from the east came and told him that the promised king had been born) Shall be pierced without breaking a bone (When Jesus was crucified not one of his bones was broken. Not by the nails, not by the spear the soldier thrust into his side and they did not, as was the custom, break his legs so that he would die faster) He was betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of silver (Judas) The list goes on and on, but don’t worry, I won’t list all 109. However, check out Psalms one of the most specific descriptions of the crucifixion in the Bible outside of the gospels and written long before Jesus was even born and during a time when this form of execution was not even in existence. Jesus himself pointed out this reference from the cross so that all the children of Israel would have another indication that He was who He said he was. Just as clearly as if I said, “Row row row your boat” you would all know what came next. Every Israelite (Jew) present would have the books of the law (Torah) and the others memorized since they were children and would immediately recognize this passage when Jesus said, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” He was not giving up, He was giving hope.

7. Nothing we do for or by ourselves is enough to bridge the gap between us and God. But that is not cause to despair, but to rejoice because Jesus has bridged it for us. Galatians 2: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Ephesians 2: 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
8. Jesus was crucified (historical fact), died (again historical fact and documented medically. When the spear was thrust into his side and “blood and water flowed” this was because the spear punctured the pericardial sac that holds the heart and is filled with a clear water like liquid and the heart which of course is filled with blood. This alone would kill anyone, especially after the ordeal He had already gone through, which I will not detail here because this post will be long enough already but suffice to say that when He was raised on the cross it would have been difficult to even recognize that He was a man.) and he rose on the third day according to the scriptures and testified to by hundreds of witnesses, not all followers and from all areas of society (in any court of law, that many witnesses would be more than sufficient to close a case)

9. Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice we can have communion with Him and with the Father through Jesus and no one else. John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. That is pretty clear, not by Mohammed, Buddha, reverend Moon, lots of candles or even by a priest. Only through Jesus.

10. Not finally, but I will end with this since I am probably exceeding a limit. He is coming back again.