Moscow in Venezuela

Kamenwati · 09-22-2008, 04:43 PM

MOSCOW: A fleet of Russian warships led by a massive missile cruiser set sail from their Arctic base yesterday headed for Venezuela to take part in naval

Russian Warships

Moscow knows McCain will win the election; they want a good strategic point.

Pallin got the backdoor covered.

Flynn · 09-22-2008, 05:37 PM

So you think it is only America that can have naval trials with their allies ?

If so that is a very narrow view of world politics.

It is no wonder that comments like yours isolates good Americans from the rest of the world.

Itsnotgonnaspankitself... · 09-22-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamenwati

MOSCOW: A fleet of Russian warships led by a massive missile cruiser set sail from their Arctic base yesterday headed for Venezuela to take part in naval

Russian Warships

Moscow knows McCain will win the election; they want a good strategic point.

Pallin got the backdoor covered.

I think this was planned by both "sides"...

I believe the Republicans would like to start another Cold War to stir up fear among the American people, because fear is a strong motivator, and they have used it in the past (like the 9/11 incident) to get the American people to bend to their will...and to get the world to believe their ongoing outpour of B.S.

I still believe this is all linked to the little intimate dinner GWB and Putin had at Bush's ranch (well...the American taxpayer's ranch, really) all buddy-buddy like over a couple of steaks BBQ'd up by ol' Dubya himself.

The catch is: Russia can afford to play the game this time, where America cannot.

I don't think even Bush would be stupid enough to start WW3...so I'm thinking it's just another strategy to make some corporation (Halliburton maybe?) a crapload of money, as well as a select few individuals.

Russia stands to regain cred on the world stage, and to regain its status as a Superpower, which it lost in the 80's when it couldn't afford to keep up to the USA in the arms race.

I'm really not sure what, if anything, America would gain out of it, given their piss-poor financial situation, and I really don't understand economics well-enough to have an educated guess. Though if I were to guess, it would be as I said before, where they are looking to make a select few really disgustingly wealthy, at the expense of everyone else in the country.

Quite frankly, I hope I'm wrong.

My question would be: What options would be open to the USA *if* their economy completely collapsed?

Would war be an option?

Or a union with another country (or countries) perhaps...?

Say...Canada and/or Mexico maybe?

your thoughts anyone?

Flynn · 09-22-2008, 06:29 PM

My thoughts are.........

America may as well let more Mexicans run the USA.

They couldn't possibly do a worse job than the White Republicans who are running the show at present.

Vinnie · 09-22-2008, 07:27 PM

Okay folks what we have here is merely show. The fleet is led by a missile cruiser and features an anti-submarine ship....This is not about power projection, a missile cruiser can only dominate some 150miles of sea...not much in the grand scheme of things and is absolutely no threat to an area where there are land based aircraft. There was a reasonthat the old soviet forces built some extensive submarine fleets but these are now rotting away in Archangel. This is anj attempt to bolster the profile of a friendly leader in the area.

As to the American economy, if you think that's in a mess then you'd better look at the Russian one.

Itsnotgonnaspankitself... · 09-22-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flynn

My thoughts are.........

America may as well let more Mexicans run the USA.

They couldn't possibly do a worse job than the White Republicans who are running the show at present.

Agreed.

Hopefully, if all goes well, they'll have a Obama running the country soon, and hopefully he can fix some of the damage that the Bush admin has done to the country...

Itsnotgonnaspankitself... · 09-22-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnie

Okay folks what we have here is merely show. The fleet is led by a missile cruiser and features an anti-submarine ship....This is not about power projection, a missile cruiser can only dominate some 150miles of sea...not much in the grand scheme of things and is absolutely no threat to an area where there are land based aircraft. There was a reasonthat the old soviet forces built some extensive submarine fleets but these are now rotting away in Archangel. This is anj attempt to bolster the profile of a friendly leader in the area.

As to the American economy, if you think that's in a mess then you'd better look at the Russian one.

Nothing's *just for show* on the world stage, without a reason behind it...or at least, that is my belief.

And as for the Russian economy...umm...last I heard, it was doing pretty well...

Vinnie · 09-23-2008, 04:18 AM

0735
Russia's stock market has had its most difficult week since the late 1990s when its government defaulted on some of its debt. Its value has declined by more than half since May. Correspondent James Rodgers reports on how the stock market has been suspended several times.
Friday 19th September

BBC - Today

This indicates that the problem is not merely domestic. Additionally look at the base that the economy is starting from and GDP per head of population:
the various charts put the US at about 45,000 per person and Russia at about 9,000. It is easier to grow from a low base than a high one. Admittedly the chart does show some anomalies where some countries are over represented due to small populations eg. Luxemburg and Iceland.

Flynn · 09-23-2008, 05:25 AM

I've seen some threads go off topic but how do you get from naval exercises to the Russian economy in less than one page.

Vinnie your statement that

quote..... a missile cruiser can only dominate some 150miles of sea...not much in the grand scheme of things and is absolutely no threat to an area where there are land based aircraft.

These land based aircraft you speak of.

How good are they at shooting down nuclear armed missiles ?

Do you know that missiles in the Russian navy have a longer range than 150 miles ?

Vinnie · 09-23-2008, 07:55 AM

If you want to launch a surprise attack of a nuclear charecter then you do not use a missile cruiser. You use the systems specifically designed for that..the Boomers.
The range of the Russian se-launched cruise missile is 162 nautical miles and this represents the range of dominance that the cruiser and it's squadrojn could be able to control. It's a question of projection of power and in this a missile cruiser is very limited.

09-22-2008, 04:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kamenwati Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Nexus Posts: 198	Moscow in Venezuela MOSCOW: A fleet of Russian warships led by a massive missile cruiser set sail from their Arctic base yesterday headed for Venezuela to take part in naval Russian Warships Moscow knows McCain will win the election; they want a good strategic point. Pallin got the backdoor covered. __________________

09-22-2008, 05:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Flynn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,270	So you think it is only America that can have naval trials with their allies ? If so that is a very narrow view of world politics. It is no wonder that comments like yours isolates good Americans from the rest of the world. __________________ It's always easier to get forgiveness than permission.

09-22-2008, 06:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Flynn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,270	My thoughts are......... America may as well let more Mexicans run the USA. They couldn't possibly do a worse job than the White Republicans who are running the show at present. __________________ It's always easier to get forgiveness than permission.

09-23-2008, 05:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
Flynn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,270	I've seen some threads go off topic but how do you get from naval exercises to the Russian economy in less than one page. Vinnie your statement that quote..... a missile cruiser can only dominate some 150miles of sea...not much in the grand scheme of things and is absolutely no threat to an area where there are land based aircraft. These land based aircraft you speak of. How good are they at shooting down nuclear armed missiles ? Do you know that missiles in the Russian navy have a longer range than 150 miles ? __________________ It's always easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

09-22-2008, 07:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vinnie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,104	Okay folks what we have here is merely show. The fleet is led by a missile cruiser and features an anti-submarine ship....This is not about power projection, a missile cruiser can only dominate some 150miles of sea...not much in the grand scheme of things and is absolutely no threat to an area where there are land based aircraft. There was a reasonthat the old soviet forces built some extensive submarine fleets but these are now rotting away in Archangel. This is anj attempt to bolster the profile of a friendly leader in the area. As to the American economy, if you think that's in a mess then you'd better look at the Russian one.

09-23-2008, 04:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Vinnie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,104	0735 Russia's stock market has had its most difficult week since the late 1990s when its government defaulted on some of its debt. Its value has declined by more than half since May. Correspondent James Rodgers reports on how the stock market has been suspended several times. Friday 19th September BBC - Today This indicates that the problem is not merely domestic. Additionally look at the base that the economy is starting from and GDP per head of population: the various charts put the US at about 45,000 per person and Russia at about 9,000. It is easier to grow from a low base than a high one. Admittedly the chart does show some anomalies where some countries are over represented due to small populations eg. Luxemburg and Iceland.

09-23-2008, 07:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
Vinnie Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,104	If you want to launch a surprise attack of a nuclear charecter then you do not use a missile cruiser. You use the systems specifically designed for that..the Boomers. The range of the Russian se-launched cruise missile is 162 nautical miles and this represents the range of dominance that the cruiser and it's squadrojn could be able to control. It's a question of projection of power and in this a missile cruiser is very limited.