Should someone be forced to do something they simply do not wish to do?

[sybarite]

Originally Posted by Itsnotgonnaspankitself...

I think it's just kinda like the false bravado bandied about by certain gunnies, how they try to make themselves sound all brave and heroic and crap...but let's be real here...

We'd all like to think we're more virtuous and integrous than we really are...but when the sh*t hits the fan, I think fear becomes the great equalizer.

I wanted to present some situations that I assumed you wouldn't find palatable...though I'm not here to judge if you do...

If (fill in the blank) came after me and said deny your faith or we'll chop off your head, I would say, "Go ahead." I don't hold much value on this earthly body. If they would say, "Deny your faith or we will cut your 8 year old grand-daughter's fingers off one by one," I would probably say whatever they wanted me to say. Does that make me a bad Christian? To some, maybe. God knows what each of us can handle and I think He understands and knows our hearts. My heart would still be with Him no matter what they were forcing me to say. Just being honest and I'm just sayin!!

[arella]

I'll be brutaly honest... I have & will do whatever it takes to protect me & my loved ones... FUCK the consequences!

[arella]

Lyrics | Avenged Sevenfold lyrics - Scream lyrics

[Patrish]

So basically, some of you add in consequences, but i would like to see an actual reply to your own questions.

If you were forced to do something that you just didnt like, or believe in, should you be in that position and is against the basic human right?
I dont think force is ever appropriate. Rape is force... molestation is force... ok paying taxes is force - but i wasnt even thinking of that.

The question is basic because i am observing how it plays out. :

[Patrish]

Originally Posted by arella

Isn't it funny that onlt a few of us didn't bring religon to this topic?

Good job, Patrish! You proved that this debate section is probe to sterotyping, jumping the gun and passing the buck lol just to name a few

[Itsnotgonnaspankitself...]

Originally Posted by Patrish

If you were forced to do something that you just didnt like, or believe in, should you be in that position and is against the basic human right?
I dont think force is ever appropriate. Rape is force... molestation is force... ok paying taxes is force - but i wasnt even thinking of that.

Again, it's all just too vague.

And you talk about physical force, but what about coercion...?

Or guilt, which you yourself don't seem to mind using...is guilt okay?

[indianajoe]

Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy - Kids and parenting- msnbc.com


MSNBC.com


Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
Parents of 13-year-old sought to treat his cancer with ‘alternative medicine’
The Associated Press
updated 3:07 p.m. ET, Fri., May 15, 2009
MINNEAPOLIS - A Minnesota judge ruled Friday that a 13-year-old cancer patient must be evaluated by a doctor to determine if the boy would benefit from restarting chemotherapy over his parents' objections.
In a 58-page ruling, Brown County District Judge John Rodenberg found that Daniel Hauser has been "medically neglected" by his parents, Colleen and Anthony Hauser, and was in need of child protection services.
While he allowed Daniel to stay with his parents, the judge gave the Hausers until Tuesday to get an updated chest X-ray for their son and select an oncologist.
If the evaluation shows the cancer had advanced to a point where chemotherapy and radiation would no longer help, the judge said, he would not order the boy to undergo treatment.
The judge wrote that Daniel has only a "rudimentary understanding at best of the risks and benefits of chemotherapy. ... he does not believe he is ill currently. The fact is that he is very ill currently."
Daniel's court-appointed attorney, Philip Elbert, called the decision unfortunate.
"I feel it's a blow to families," he said. "It marginalizes the decisions that parents face every day in regard to their children's medical care. It really affirms the role that big government is better at making our decisions for us."
Elbert said he hadn't spoken to his client yet. The phone line at the Hauser home in Sleepy Eye in southwestern Minnesota had a busy signal Friday. The parents' attorney had no immediate comment but planned to issue a statement.
Daniel was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma and stopped chemotherapy in February after a single treatment. He and his parents opted instead for "alternative medicines" based on their religious beliefs.

Child protection workers accused Daniel's parents of medical neglect; but in court, his mother insisted the boy wouldn't submit to chemotherapy for religious reasons and she said she wouldn't comply if the court orders it.


Doctors have said Daniel's cancer had up to a 90 percent chance of being cured with chemotherapy and radiation. Without those treatments, doctors said his chances of survival are 5 percent.

Daniel's parents have been supporting what they say is their son's decision to treat the disease with nutritional supplements and other alternative treatments favored by the Nemenhah Band.

The Missouri-based religious group believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians.

After the first chemotherapy treatment, the family said they wanted a second opinion, said Dr. Bruce Bostrom, a pediatric oncologist who recommended Daniel undergo chemotherapy and radiation.

They later informed him that Daniel would not undergo any more chemotherapy. Bostrom said Daniel's tumor shrunk after the first chemotherapy session, but X-rays show it has grown since he stopped the chemotherapy.

"My son is not in any medical danger at this point," Colleen Hauser testified at a court hearing last week. She also testified that Daniel is a medicine man and elder in the Nemenhah Band.

The family's attorney, Calvin Johnson, said Daniel made the decision himself to refuse chemotherapy, but Brown County said he did not have an understanding of what it meant to be a medicine man or an elder.

Court filings also indicated Daniel has a learning disability and can't read.

The Hausers have eight children. Colleen Hauser told the New Ulm Journal newspaper that the family's Catholicism and adherence to the Nemenhah Band are not in conflict, and that she has used natural remedies to treat illness.

Nemenhah was founded in the 1990s by Philip Cloudpiler Landis, who said Thursday he once served four months in prison in Idaho for fraud related to advocating natural remedies.

Landis said he founded the faith after facing his diagnosis of a cancer similar to Daniel Hauser. He said he treated it with diet choices, visits to a sweat lodge and other natural remedies.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy - Kids and parenting- msnbc.com

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So should the court be able to force their son to undergo Chemo?

[hortysir]

Sounds like free exercise of their religion.

[indianajoe]

Originally Posted by hortysir

Sounds like free exercise of their religion.

but does that free expression of said religion include denying the prescribed medical treatment to their son ? Is the son , who is 13, himself refusing the medical treatment for religious reasons?

[hortysir]

According to the story, yes. But the state contends that due to his age and learning disability that he is incapable of making that decision.
I thought parents were responsible for their children's care until adulthood. Not the state.