Healthcare

[hortysir]

I've been swayed......
I confess I watched a Michael Moore movie. AND he made sense.
The movie was "Sicko", and it compared our healthcare system to other "Socialized" plans.
I'd like to get some reviews from my European and Canadian friends on how good their coverage is and how high of an income/payroll tax they pay.
I know there is always isolated horror stories, but I'd like to see the big picture.
Alot of Obama's opponents are against his recent push, citing the state of our economy....but that's exactly when Great Britain started their's - right after the war, when they were in dire straits (great band, BTW )

Anyway...thoughts, comments, plans???

[squirt]

I think I'm gonna fall through the cracks, there's nothing proposed that will help someone like me, too rich to be poor, too poor to be rich and no employer benefits lol

[hortysir]

There was line in that movie that spoke volumes:
Nobody really falls through the cracks. Someone has taken a broom and pushed them into the crack.
Everyone knows I'm all for a free enterprise society where anyone and everyone should be allowed to make as much money as they can. Including big corporations.
And I'm totally against free handouts.
But, as insured persons, we're already paying for the un-covered people with our raised premiums to defray the unpaid bills of others.
Why not just let our taxes do the same thing?
And I'm sure, in most cases, our taxes wouldn't rise as high as a BC/BS healthplan costs per month.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by hortysir

There was line in that movie that spoke volumes:
Nobody really falls through the cracks. Someone has taken a broom and pushed them into the crack.
Everyone knows I'm all for a free enterprise society where anyone and everyone should be allowed to make as much money as they can. Including big corporations.
And I'm totally against free handouts.
But, as insured persons, we're already paying for the un-covered people with our raised premiums to defray the unpaid bills of others.
Why not just let our taxes do the same thing?
And I'm sure, in most cases, our taxes wouldn't rise as high as a BC/BS healthplan costs per month.

The NHS when it started was fine in principal. But it has become a monster over the last few years, top heavy with overpaid staff that do sod all, outreach managers, and diversity and ehthnic co-ordinators whatever the F''k they are? and short on essential staff such as nurses, cleaners that they pay the least possible etc. Also with the massive influx of immigrants that are draining the system and not paying into it. I feel something will have to give in the not too distant future before it all collapses.

[AutumnRain]

thankfully ours isnt in such a bad way as yours kip..
we also have a safety net of sorts.. if you are not seen by a specialist after 3 months of your initial dr's visit then you are entitled to go private at NHS expense.. we also have free hospital choice, which means you can pick what hospital you are seen by..

it works here.. it really does. as for income tax.. I personally pay 38%.. but some people can pay up to 60% of their wages, but thats not just for a free healthcare service.. thats for a great social welfare system over all that works!

[hortysir]

Originally Posted by AutumnRain

thankfully ours isnt in such a bad way as yours kip..
we also have a safety net of sorts.. if you are not seen by a specialist after 3 months of your initial dr's visit then you are entitled to go private at NHS expense.. we also have free hospital choice, which means you can pick what hospital you are seen by..

it works here.. it really does. as for income tax.. I personally pay 38%.. but some people can pay up to 60% of their wages, but thats not just for a free healthcare service.. thats for a great social welfare system over all that works!

Thanks, AR
I know, in the past, I've gasped at the amount of your taxes.
But, like I said, that amount still isn't as high as what I would pay for me and my spouse for a co-pay private insurance...

[Goodgrief]

The Canadian health care system has become a monumental farce.
Waiting lists are getting longer, there's a severe shortage of beds, nurses and doctors.
It's not as "free" as one would think because we are taxed to death.
What has gone wrong? You can point the finger at every level of management of the plan.

The Feds get money from taxes (personal income, sales tax, sin taxes). So do the provinces. The provinces send a large amount of tax proceeds to the Feds. In return, the Feds are supposed to equalize the allocations to the provinces, according to their population. However, the provinces with the biggest population aren't necessarily the richest. Therefore, the provinces who contributed the most receive less than they should. The governments impose new taxes on a regular basis, which are supposedly intended to boost the health care but somehow, the money collected never seems to go to that specific area. There are no checks and balances.

Then there's abuse. An increasing amount of people seems to think that because it's "free", they can justify a visit to a doctor or the emergency for a hang-nail or a common cold. Don't laugh, it's true. Unless things have changed recently, nose and boob jobs are covered by the plan.

There's discrimination. New immigrants and certain ethnic groups are given precedence over the average tax payer. Surprised? I won't go into details, but my surgery for a broken ankle was delayed by a day because of that little fact. Oh yeah, a 3 mile ambulance ride cost us $295.

Prescriptions, eye and dental care aren't covered. Most people subscribe to Blue Cross (hefty monthly payment) in order to alleviate these costs.

In a nut shell, if the average working Canadian got back every penny he spent on "health-care taxes" in one year, he would be able to buy the Mercedes-Benz of health-care coverage and still have more money in his pocket than he ever did.

Our politicians are very well aware of the poor state of the universal health care. When they are in need of treatment, they get flown the the United States for medical attention -- a former Quebec Premier (the equivalent of a Governor) received treatment for cancer in New York a few years ago.

Beware America! There's no such thing as a "free" health care!

[Bamber]

I agree with Kipper's "top heavy" comment about the UK NHS, it has become ridiculous over the last 15 or so years. On the other hand out waiting lists have on the whole reduced drastically over that time too.

In the UK we pay about 33% tax on income, but it's hard to tell how much of that goes on the NHS as all taxes are paid into the treasury and then allocated by the chancellor to whatever he sees fit.

[hortysir]

Alot of good input.
I would never expect it to be 'free', because I do have a sense of what's going on around me. I do know that alot of Americans think it will be completely free!
I'm not sure how a doctor, bringing in a 6 figure income, could be persuaded to work for the government....

[Vinnie]

The medical profession was dead set against the NHS when they brought it in. Now after some 50 years they are it's biggest supporters...go figure.

I have seen really good NHS and shockingly bad but I'd guess that is the same for most health care. The problem with private health care is they do not want to treat the expensive cases. The problem with socialised healthcare is it is expensive and they wanrt to treat everyone the same. How do you compare the life of a small child and that of an elderly person? There is only so much monety to go round in non-socialised healthcare the treatment goes to who can afford it. In socialised systems it goes to who deserves it but who decides who is deserving?