11-22-2005, 05:31 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
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OK How about this Why does the RCC think Women are so flawed?
VATICAN CITY - The Vatican says homosexuals who are sexually active or support “gay culture” are unwelcome in the priesthood unless they have overcome their homosexual tendencies for at least three years, according to a church document posted on the Internet by an Italian Catholic news agency.
The long-awaited document is scheduled to be released by the Vatican on Nov. 29. A church official who has read the document confirmed the authenticity of the Internet posting by the Adista news agency. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the document has not yet been officially released by the Vatican. The document said that “the church, while deeply respecting the people in question, cannot admit to the seminary and the sacred orders those who practice homosexuality, present deeply rooted homosexual tendencies or support so-called gay culture.” “Those people find themselves, in fact, in a situation that presents a grave obstacle to a correct relationship with men and women. One cannot ignore the negative consequences that can stem from the ordination of people with deeply rooted homosexual tendencies,” it said. “If instead it is a case of homosexual tendencies that are merely the expression of a transitory problem, for example as in the case of an unfinished adolescence, they must however have been clearly overcome for at least three years before ordination as a deacon.” Revisitation of old policy Vatican prohibitions on active homosexuals becoming priests are not new. A key 1961 Vatican document on selecting candidates for the priesthood made clear homosexuals should be barred. However, the sex abuse scandal among priests in the United States and elsewhere has led some to call for new restrictions. Estimates of the number of gays in U.S. seminaries and the priesthood range from 25 percent to 50 percent, according to a review of research by the Rev. Donald Cozzens, a former seminary rector and author of “The Changing Face of the Priesthood.” The Vatican press office announced in November 2002, at the height of the clergy sex scandal in the United States, that the Congregation for Catholic Education was drawing up guidelines for accepting candidates for the priesthood that would address the question of whether gays should be barred. However, the document reportedly had been in the works well before then. The document, called an “Instruction” is only five pages, including footnotes. It was signed by the prefect and secretary of the congregation on Nov. 4 and says it was approved by Pope Benedict XVI on Aug. 31. The sex abuse scandals have forced an unprecedented introspection into the clergy and how to train future priests. ‘Evidence of homosexuality’ In September, Vatican-directed inspectors started visiting all 229 American seminaries. Part of their mission is to seek any “evidence of homosexuality” at a time when some Catholics have put forward the highly contested premise that gay priests were more likely to be responsible for criminal behavior such as serial, same-sex molestation. The Vatican has often visited the issue of homosexuality, reflecting an unbending theological opposition but also an acknowledgment that discrimination based on sexual preference is not justified. In 2003, homosexuality was described as a “troubling moral and social phenomenon” in a document by the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then headed by German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict this year. Vatican teaching also holds that homosexuals are “intrinsically disordered.” The church, however, says gays and lesbians should be treated with compassion and dignity. I am confused. Is being Gay a choice, an extension of adolescent unresolved issues or a biological issue? It is my understanding it is a biological issue as demonstrated by much research regarding certain structures of the brain. As disclosed by Gay rights advocates and gay people themselves. So, here we have the RCC stating ok, don't have sex for three years, or don't have homosexual sex for three years and you can be a priest. I wonder do they say don’t have sex with children for three years and you can be a priest, don’t have sex with beasts for three years and you can be a priest.  Are these folks desperate or what? Now they are retracting their belief it is inherently wrong, NO THEY ARE NOT as the article states "Vatican teaching also holds that homosexuals are “intrinsically disordered.” Again are they so desperate as to compromise their value system?????  SO THE “INTRINSICALLY DISORDERED” ARE WORTHY TO SERVE THE LORD AS PRIEST YET WOMEN ARE SO FLAWED THAT NO WAY IN HELL ARE THEY EVER GOING TO BE ALLOWED THE SAME STATUS AS MEN IN THE RCC! WHAT A CROCK!  I for one don't see any difference, if a PERSON, yes PERSON, man or woman is willing to give up their sexuality as a prerequisite to become a person of the cloth then so be it, whether they are MAN, WOMEN, GAY or STRAIGHT...WHAT SAY YOU? But peds or beast lovers…well we gotta draw the line somewhere other than just the vile woman! 
Last edited by MichaelArchangel; 11-28-2005 at 11:51 AM. Reason: GETTING POINT ACROSS, GOD IS NOT THE RCC! I WONDER IF GOD IS EVEN WITHIN THE RCC? |
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11-22-2005, 05:37 PM
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#2 (permalink) |
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i didnt read all that cos im tired but i want to comment on the first bit...
3 years? so if you stop all "homosexual tendencies" for 3 years everything is alright? so after the 3 years you are free to do as you please? |
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11-22-2005, 05:51 PM
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#3 (permalink) |
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What a crock...and as usual you deliberately misread the content.
How did you do in reading comprehension, MA? Just wondered. AS for women................scripture, the first written laws of the Church, have always denied this particular role for women, BUT that does NOT mean that woman are hated....you are so bigotted you stink.  Why do women have to be in this position to be important? WHAT makes you THINK they are hated because their roles are DIFFERENT?? That is a sexist remark. Do girls belong in boy scouts? NO they have girl scouts.................................. ........ WE are not all meant to perform certain roles... DOES God hate men because men cannot become pregnant and carry a child and feel the life? Get a grip MA...get a grip! 
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11-22-2005, 05:54 PM
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#4 (permalink) | |
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DUH 101 |
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11-22-2005, 06:13 PM
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#5 (permalink) |
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Vatican: Sexually Active Gays Unwelcome
AP - 1 hour, 57 minutes ago VATICAN CITY - The Vatican says homosexuals who are sexually active or support "gay culture" are unwelcome in the priesthood unless they have overcome their homosexual tendencies for at least three years, according to a church document posted on the Internet by an Italian Catholic news agency. The long-awaited document is scheduled to be released by the Vatican on Nov. 29. A church official who has read the document confirmed the authenticity of the Internet posting by the Adista news agency. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the document has not yet been officially released by the Vatican. Gay Priests Struggle With Vatican's Rules AP 1961 document on priest selection at Catholic Culture Related coverage: Gays and Lesbians Discuss
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11-22-2005, 06:34 PM
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#6 (permalink) |
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Also note what I quoted...they cannot know the standings of someone who hides it.
This includes the standing behind gay rights and gay activities. IF a gay man enters the priesthood, and is not 'active' then he wont be 'dismissed' in a prejudiced light, and may be welcomed, if his intent is to BE 'abstinent' as all are supposed to be. SO IE, if a man enters the priesthood who has since forever struggled with his 'preferences' but has never involved himself actively in the preference he has because he values the Catholic teachings...then he is 'non sexual' and is not performing fornication ...as is the tenets of the priesthood. It has nothing to do with homo or hetero preferences...but abstinence is the requirement. THAT is what they are working with...and on. It is not 'being hard up' so much as God can call anyone, and they do not deny anyone God has choosen as long as they stand behind the tenets of the Church and have faith in the Church and the teachings. |
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11-22-2005, 06:35 PM
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#7 (permalink) |
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Sister Parish stated: “What a crock...and as usual you deliberately misread the content.”
I understand the content, anyone but women are able to serve as priest, criminals, homosexual, the “intrinsically disordered” ANYONE BUT WOMEN! Sister opens mouth and spews: “How did you do in reading comprehension, MA? Just wondered.” I did quiet well thanks for asking, but I went to a public school not a Catholic school, so I probably did not do as well as you as evident by your great writing skills and incomprehensible comprehension! LOL!  The Holy Woman spoke: “AS for women................scripture, the first written laws of the Church, have always denied this particular role for women, BUT that does NOT mean that woman are hated....you are so bigotted you stink. ” Bigotted, you must mean bigoted, correct? I am not prejudiced, well at least not as prejudiced as the RCC! Hard to compete with that organization…and beside I just took a shower! The chosen one stated: “Why do women have to be in this position to be important? WHAT makes you THINK they are hated because their roles are DIFFERENT?? That is a sexist remark. ” Why are women not good enough to be in this most important position? Roles!!!! And you speak poorly of Subby’s view on women, yet they are allowed to be “priest” as far as I understand Islam! Perhaps you are correct and the term hated is too strong, how about women are just not GOOD enough to be priest! Is that more palatable for you? What is a sexist remark? Come on you threw out the statement follow up with what you are talking about as I am most certain no one will consider my views regarding women and the priesthood to be sexist, contrary my dear, contrary! The defender of the faith speaks such words of wisdom: “Do girls belong in boy scouts? NO they have girl scouts.................................. ........ WE are not all meant to perform certain roles... DOES God hate men because men cannot become pregnant and carry a child and feel the life? Get a grip MA...get a grip! ” No Sister Parish God doesn’t hate men, remember he is a man, has a penis and all…  Sister is that your retort? Come on now you must have more for consideration than to attempt to distract from the underlying message the Vatican is putting out there for the entire world to see. Even you as a woman are blinded to the gender bias of the RCC. I have a grip dear, it is called reality, what you appear to be lacking is any semblance of reasoning.  Exactly which points do you think I have not comprehended from the article? Please explain? If you can!  Do girls belong in the boy scouts…oh my goodness…I just can’t argue with this line of logic…No they belong in the Girl Scouts so they can sell cookies! At least I venture that is the RCC view! LOL!  Sincerely, Michael Peace is within, you are the real key, to let it out and allow others to partake in it is what brings you closer to God. God gave you a mind; use it for your own sake! The more I learn, the less I understand! |
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11-22-2005, 08:15 PM
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A matter of preference doesnt always mean someone will be active....does it? Or do you feel once homosexual, they are unable to refrain themselves?? They do NOT want criminals...DOH! This is why priests that have done criminal acts are defrocked...ya have heard of the term I assume. Quote:
I am returning the favor.Quote:
Ever hear of a reverse bigot? Taking measures to an extreme...it is also bigotry. {Another debate} Take another shower.... Quote:
AS St Paul explained..women remain silent in the Churches. This only means to refrain from preaching to the masses...yet women are teachers but not on the altar. Women are also making vows of celibacy...aka nuns. WOmen assist priests as deaconess and they nurture the Church. they perform many services with gratitute and humbly so.... So what is to a smart woman to earn reward on earth, when the last shall be first and the first shall be last? Does it mean that much? No, it doesn't. IT is an earthly vocation, which is limited in time as is any other. This is how CHRIST choose to administer His Church...by men. Women had a different role/s as I explained. ONLY the proud would try to usurp Christ's wishes and authority to see to it their own 'ego's' get stroked. Quote:
lolAs far as a penis.... not sure He has a necessity for one or not. And not something I ponder on. Quote:
Turning an article into women hating?? Dont make me come over there and smack you. Quote:
And Boy scouts sell popcorn.  The point is as women and men are different...we have different roles in life...women carry children, and men cannot. Women bond with their child this way, and men cannot. Men can lift heavy materials..men walk differently, men look different, men think different, men are just different. NOTE that I use quotations to seperate the words you say and I say...you should use the copy and paste inside the quotes..it makes the 'post' more interesting and concise to the point. It gets boring trying to decipher. {EVEN if you would just make your words different colors would help...or larger...anything at all...or I will just have to ignore it.} |
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11-23-2005, 04:55 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
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Vatican Closes Door on Gay Seminarians By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
Tue Nov 22,11:06 PM ET The Vatican is toughening its stand against gay candidates for the priesthood, specifying in a new document that even men with "transitory" homosexual tendencies must overcome their urges for at least three years before entering the clergy. A long-awaited "Instruction," due to be released next week, was posted Tuesday on the Internet by the Italian Catholic news agency Adista. A church official who has read the document confirmed its authenticity; he asked that his name not be used because the piece has not been published by the Vatican. Conservative Roman Catholics who have decried the "gay subculture" in seminaries will likely applaud the policy because it clarifies what the Vatican expects of seminarians and their administrators. Critics of the policy warned that, if enforced, it will likely result in seminarians lying about their orientation and will decrease the already dwindling number of priests in the United States. Estimates of the percentage of gays in U.S. seminaries and the priesthood range from 25 percent to 50 percent, according to a research review by the Rev. Donald Cozzens, an author of "The Changing Face of the Priesthood." The document from the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education says the church deeply respects homosexuals. But it also says it "cannot admit to the seminary and the sacred orders those who practice homosexuality, present deeply rooted homosexual tendencies or support so-called gay culture." "Those people find themselves, in fact, in a situation that presents a grave obstacle to a correct relationship with men and women. One cannot ignore the negative consequences that can stem from the ordination of people with deeply rooted homosexual tendencies," it said. "If instead it is a case of homosexual tendencies that are merely the expression of a transitory problem, for example as in the case of an unfinished adolescence, they must however have been clearly overcome for at least three years before ordination as a deacon." For many gay-rights activists, the Vatican's distinction between deep-rooted and "transitory" homosexuality is without basis. "For decades now, the scientific and medical community have said that sexual orientation is an immutable trait, what some of us might call a gift from God," said Harry Knox, director of the religion and faith program at the Washington-based Human Rights Campaign Foundation. "This new policy causes candidates for the priesthood to be deceptive, and that should not be what the church should be about," he said. Vatican prohibitions on sexually active gays becoming priests are not new, and a 1961 document says homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood. But the issue came to the fore in 2002, at the height of the clergy sex abuse scandal in the United States. A study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found most abuse victims since 1950 were adolescent boys. Experts on sex offenders said homosexuals are no more likely than heterosexuals to molest young people, but that did not stifle questions about gay seminarians. In addition, some Catholic researchers said "gay subcultures" in seminaries were alienating heterosexuals, prompting them to drop out. The new document underlines that long-standing traditions and church teaching consider homosexual acts "grave sins" and also intrinsically immoral and contrary to natural law. Thomas Plante, a psychologist who for more than 15 years has conducted evaluations of prospective seminarians for U.S. dioceses and religious orders, said the document would have an "enormous" ripple effect on the future U.S. priesthood if it is followed. "Sexual orientation in almost all the evaluations I've done over 15 years hasn't really mattered," he said. "Now what's coming out of the Vatican is that it matters in a big way. That's a real challenge because we think that there are many, many, many gay men who are fabulous priests." He questioned how seminary directors would apply the new regulations, and suggested that many may resort to a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The candidates too, may try to hide their sexual orientation because homosexuality is now a deal-breaker, said Plante, who is chairman of the psychology department at Santa Clara University in California. The document, called an "Instruction," is only five pages long, including footnotes. It was signed by the prefect and secretary of the congregation on Nov. 4, and says it was approved by Pope Benedict XVI on Aug. 31. The text makes no reference to current priests, directed instead to people entering seminaries and preparing for ordination. Its title reads: "Regarding the criteria of vocational discernment regarding people with homosexual tendencies in view of their admission to the seminary and to sacred orders." The sex abuse scandals have forced an unprecedented introspection into the clergy and how to train future priests. In September, Vatican-directed inspectors started visiting all 229 American seminaries. Part of their mission has been to seek any "evidence of homosexuality." The Vatican has often visited the issue of homosexuality, reflecting an unbending theological opposition but also an acknowledgment that discrimination based on sexual preference is not justified. In 2003, homosexuality was described as a "troubling moral and social phenomenon" in a document by the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then headed by German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict this year.
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11-23-2005, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
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DO I GET 10 POINTS?????
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