Good/Bad? Fair/Unfair??

hortysir

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[video=youtube;QPKKQnijnsM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QPKKQnijnsM#![/video]
 

Flynn

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I'm a great believer in Socialism but everyone from lower middle class to the absolute poor should be set adrift to let them sink or swim.




 

Ms.Diablo50

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[QUOTE="Flynn, post: 4259140]

I'm a great believer in Socialism but everyone from lower middle class to the absolute poor should be set adrift to let them sink or swim.




[/QUOTE]



​???? Care to explain? I could take this several ways, but I prefer to hear it from you........
 

hortysir

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If I catch Flynn's drift correctly, we're not so far apart.
I understand that *sometimes* it's not the person's fault for their poverty but society is supposed to reward hard work.
Let them work for it. I'm sorry if Bill Gates managed to leverage more wealth than you but get off your ass and come up with your own niche to make your money.
 

likeaneagle

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[QUOTE="hortysir, post: 4258735][video=youtube;QPKKQnijnsM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QPKKQnijnsM#![/video][/QUOTE]aussie is not behind u!:butterflychase:
 

Flynn

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[QUOTE="Ms.Diablo50, post: 4259184]​???? Care to explain? I could take this several ways, but I prefer to hear it from you........[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="hortysir, post: 4259208]If I catch Flynn's drift correctly, we're not so far apart.
I understand that *sometimes* it's not the person's fault for their poverty but society is supposed to reward hard work.
Let them work for it. I'm sorry if Bill Gates managed to leverage more wealth than you but get off your ass and come up with your own niche to make your money.[/QUOTE]


I don't mind explaining at all MsDiablo50 as Hortysir said we're not so far apart on most social issues.

I've seen posts by Diablo that are very much inline with what Horty posted; society is supposed to reward hard work. I watched the video but already knew that 1% of people have 95% of the wealth. The tax burden always falls on the middle income sector and it is up to them to support the welfare recipients who believe they are owed something extra without working for it.

The Western world has changed in the last 40 to 50 years. A woman's place was in the home raising the children and the male was the head of the family and could earn enough money to support that life style. Now a single income family will struggle to keep ahead of their financial commitments and will look to welfare to enhance the life style they lead.

As a child I was well provided for in regards to living standard, health and education. We were encouraged to do after school work, paid and unpaid if we wanted those extra luxuries every child needs. I've come full circle in some regards, I used to mow lawns for the neighbors, it was my fathers mower and he made me pay for the fuel, he also made me mow lawns for free for a couple of elderly neighbors.

Now.

All those jobs that were done by children earning an extra dollar are done by adults and most of them are cheating the welfare system in one way or another. The point I'm trying to make is that at one time children were taught the value of hard work. Now we have families who have three generations of welfare recipients living in public housing and none of them have any intention of contributing to making the world a better place.

As Hortysir said, sometimes it's not a person's fault for being stuck in poverty. Then there are those, even among us, who get a financial benefit and piss it up against the wall instead of investing in their own future.

In Australia we have a system of retirement benefit called superannuation, 9% of a workers wages " package " is paid into that scheme. Recently I read about a person who had claim on their divorced spouse and was entitled to half of what was invested, a fair outcome when a marriage breaks up. Instead of investing that retirement money that win fall was used to buy a new car, jewelry, ornaments, stock up the booze cupboard and pay off a current partners debts. That person has no work skills, claims a single person welfare benefit instead of the less financial lucrative alternative of declaring cohabitation with another welfare leech. They have no intention of ever contributing financially to Australian society and will be on welfare till the day they are carried out of their public housing feet first.

From what I read, the same thing is happening in the USA and UK.

In words of President Kennedy......ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

Too many people are on the welfare merry-go-round and have no intention of jumping off and contributing to the society that they live in. Then there are those through no fault of their own need the top 1% of people who have all the wealth to pay more so the underprivileged can live a dignified life.

So I'm still a Socialist at heart but that does not extend to those that rort the system and contribute nothing and want everything handed to them on a plate.
 

stevent222

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CEO;'s have no fucking idea.
 

Flynn

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[QUOTE="stevent222, post: 4259364]CEO;'s have no fucking idea.[/QUOTE]

In most cases the CEO of a company is hired because they have a vision of the future and know how to get the company there.

If you said some CEO's are paid too much I'd agree but if the person is the founder of the company and is a Bill Gates type then no amount of money is enough.

A good CEO of a publicly listed business creates wealth for the company, the workers the investors and the government through taxation.
 

Tsalagi

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[QUOTE="hortysir, post: 4259208]
I understand that *sometimes* it's not the person's fault for their poverty but society is supposed to reward hard work.
Let them work for it. I'm sorry if Bill Gates managed to leverage more wealth than you but get off your ass and come up with your own niche to make your money.[/QUOTE]
Horty, you are showing soldiers and policemen in your sigs. Can we eliminate them because they didn't follow Bill Gates in acquiring wealth?
How about firefighters? Teachers? Corrections personnel, aircraft controllers, ambulance drivers?
A lot of people sacrifice personal wealth because they see a higher purpose in life. Maybe that niche doesn't include that way to make you rich (unless you take the pay-off from the drug dealer). How about the honest bank teller? Skim the cash drawer?
Your statement is pretty one-sided, my friend.

T
 

hortysir

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[QUOTE="Tsalagi, post: 4259695]Horty, you are showing soldiers and policemen in your sigs. Can we eliminate them because they didn't follow Bill Gates in acquiring wealth?
How about firefighters? Teachers? Corrections personnel, aircraft controllers, ambulance drivers?
A lot of people sacrifice personal wealth because they see a higher purpose in life. Maybe that niche doesn't include that way to make you rich (unless you take the pay-off from the drug dealer). How about the honest bank teller? Skim the cash drawer?
Your statement is pretty one-sided, my friend.

T
[/QUOTE]

My statement is directed more at those that want more but don't wanna work for it.

I'd submit that the fireman, soldier, or policeman is happy in their chosen field......just as I am.
I don't expect a gazillion dollars and I don't begrudge those that have it.

Saw an interesting quote yesterday....it was Reagan....

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion that the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one!
:thumbs up:
 

Ms.Diablo50

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Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
8,244
[QUOTE="Flynn, post: 4259278]
I don't mind explaining at all MsDiablo50 as Hortysir said we're not so far apart on most social issues.

I've seen posts by Diablo that are very much inline with what Horty posted; society is supposed to reward hard work. I watched the video but already knew that 1% of people have 95% of the wealth. The tax burden always falls on the middle income sector and it is up to them to support the welfare recipients who believe they are owed something extra without working for it.

The Western world has changed in the last 40 to 50 years. A woman's place was in the home raising the children and the male was the head of the family and could earn enough money to support that life style. Now a single income family will struggle to keep ahead of their financial commitments and will look to welfare to enhance the life style they lead.

As a child I was well provided for in regards to living standard, health and education. We were encouraged to do after school work, paid and unpaid if we wanted those extra luxuries every child needs. I've come full circle in some regards, I used to mow lawns for the neighbors, it was my fathers mower and he made me pay for the fuel, he also made me mow lawns for free for a couple of elderly neighbors.

Now.

All those jobs that were done by children earning an extra dollar are done by adults and most of them are cheating the welfare system in one way or another. The point I'm trying to make is that at one time children were taught the value of hard work. Now we have families who have three generations of welfare recipients living in public housing and none of them have any intention of contributing to making the world a better place.

As Hortysir said, sometimes it's not a person's fault for being stuck in poverty. Then there are those, even among us, who get a financial benefit and piss it up against the wall instead of investing in their own future.

In Australia we have a system of retirement benefit called superannuation, 9% of a workers wages " package " is paid into that scheme. Recently I read about a person who had claim on their divorced spouse and was entitled to half of what was invested, a fair outcome when a marriage breaks up. Instead of investing that retirement money that win fall was used to buy a new car, jewelry, ornaments, stock up the booze cupboard and pay off a current partners debts. That person has no work skills, claims a single person welfare benefit instead of the less financial lucrative alternative of declaring cohabitation with another welfare leech. They have no intention of ever contributing financially to Australian society and will be on welfare till the day they are carried out of their public housing feet first.

From what I read, the same thing is happening in the USA and UK.

In words of President Kennedy......ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

Too many people are on the welfare merry-go-round and have no intention of jumping off and contributing to the society that they live in. Then there are those through no fault of their own need the top 1% of people who have all the wealth to pay more so the underprivileged can live a dignified life.

So I'm still a Socialist at heart but that does not extend to those that rort the system and contribute nothing and want everything handed to them on a plate.
[/QUOTE]






I can't BELIEVE I'm going to do this, but right is right and wrong is nobody......Well Flynn you managed to surprise once again..We do agree 100 % on all of it, EXCEPT the socialist part............ lol



:perfectscore:
 

Flynn

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Hortysir

The quote you posted also applies to those who think individual wealth is created by taking from people who have never done an honest days work for an honest days pay.


As for the assertion from Tsalagi that workers who have not created Bill Gates type wealth, fit with your previous post; to me, it shows he forgets that without the assistance of welfare, minority groups would be further down the poverty scale than they currently are.

 

Flynn

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Ms.Diablo50

My Socialist views only extend to those that contribute to society which is not too far away from what you believe. There is nothing wrong with distributing wealth to those who create the wealth.
 

Tsalagi

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[QUOTE="Flynn, post: 4259731]Hortysir

The quote you posted also applies to those who think individual wealth is created by taking from people who have never done an honest days work for an honest days pay.


As for the assertion from Tsalagi that workers who have not created Bill Gates type wealth, fit with your previous post; to me, it shows he forgets that without the assistance of welfare, minority groups would be further down the poverty scale than they currently are.

[/QUOTE]

My post had nothing to do with minority groups, except for those that are teachers, firemen, bank tellers, etc.

T
 

Flynn

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[QUOTE="Tsalagi, post: 4259886]My post had nothing to do with minority groups, except for those that are teachers, firemen, bank tellers, etc.

T[/QUOTE]


I apologize, I should have stipulated indigenous, ethnic or religious minority groups would not survive without suckling off the welfare tit.
 

Flynn

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Last year In Australia a Carbon Tax and Mineral Tax was levied on big business. People on welfare were GIVEN a cash bonus of $800.00 to cope with the expected rise in electricity and gas bills. Most of that money was spent on alcohol, drugs, flat screen TV's and gambling on poker machines. Now that the money is gone the complaints are rolling in because they can't pay their utility bills.
 

TonyHendrix

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Oct 18, 2004
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[QUOTE="Flynn, post: 4260256]
I apologize, I should have stipulated indigenous, ethnic or religious minority groups would not survive without suckling off the welfare tit.
[/QUOTE]
Nonsense,the Amish managed to do it quite nicely tyvm.
 

Patrish

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I am surprised as well that i find myself agreeing with Flynn.
Then again, i have had those moments in the past as well.
 
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